OLD FARM HOUSE UNDER SCOTMANS FLASH
is it true there is a old farm house under scotmans flash - does anyone have pics before the flash.my nan told me ages ago about it.
Started: 5th Dec 2007 at 12:17
Sometimes, when the water's low, you can see the tip of it's television aerial sticking out of the water. With a seagull perched on it. Probably. Or probably not?
Replied: 5th Dec 2007 at 13:47
My dad came from Chapel Lane and he always said there was a farm under the flash.
Replied: 5th Dec 2007 at 16:46
Yes i once saw the farmer trying too start his tractor,but he'd flooded it! i think it was a fish farm,lol.
Replied: 5th Dec 2007 at 17:05
Ive always been told there is.
Replied: 5th Dec 2007 at 20:55
there was plenty mining round there so there might be some kind of building who knows?
Replied: 5th Dec 2007 at 21:34
There are some buildings under the water i dont know if it was a farm or what
Replied: 5th Dec 2007 at 22:22
Scotmans Flash, a sixty acres expanse of water, formed at the end of the nineteenth century by mining subsidence with the water depth from approximately Four Feet to twenty five feet.
not very deep to hide a Farm
info from wigan sailing club records
Replied: 5th Dec 2007 at 23:56
Scotsmans(Pearson & Knowles)Flash,was caused by mining subsidence, & before Wigan Sailing Club ever went on it, Wigan Sea Cadets (TS Lady Crawford SCC), were sailing there for years...I was one of 'em. I don't know whether it's still there, but on one of the bar pillars in the Market Hotel, (dunno what it's called now), is a pic of the Rob-Jolly boat we used to sail, With CPO Harry Melling stood before the mainmast
Replied: 6th Dec 2007 at 01:56
I have heard that theres a small village under Pennington Flash is that true?
Replied: 6th Dec 2007 at 15:24
There'll be something under somewhere next. How about Atlantis lyimg under that pond in Mesnes Park.
Replied: 6th Dec 2007 at 16:07
no need to be flipant , tonker .
Replied: 6th Dec 2007 at 17:35
I have never heard of any buildings under Pennington Flash,there could be,it was formed the same way as the other Flashes.Pennington was much bigger than it is now,it reached the main road,but a lot was filled in,when it was used as Leighs main rubbish dump in the 50s.
Replied: 6th Dec 2007 at 18:47
Replied: 6th Dec 2007 at 20:20
tonker if you can;t give a sensible reply do not comment yes there is a farmhouse under scotchmans flash
Replied: 8th Jan 2008 at 15:21
Oooohhh, Get HIM! Goose Greeeeeeen!
I can see you're a 'newby', so you obviously know loads and need to make your impression.
Firstly, read back through this topic and take note what john joseph wrote, then consider this as a follow up:-
.... The deepest section of 'Scotsmans Flash' is the valley, along which flowed Ince Brook ...
So, the 'deepest' section is 25', enough to cover a farmhouse maybe, but would a farmhouse be built in a brook? No! The rest of it is shallow, 4' to 6' deep.
My conclusion, therefore, is this ....
'There is NO farmhouse under Scotsmans Flash'.
Now, is that 'sensible' enough for you, Alan?
PS ... Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear!
PPS ... AND, Goose Green is in Pemberton, not Wigan!
Replied: 8th Jan 2008 at 20:20
y'know alan may be right in his thinking - he say scotchman's flash - this may be a different flash - seriously tho' - find the farmer's name, phone him up and watch for any bubbles coming to the surface, you never know he may be waiting for the rain to stop
Replied: 26th Jan 2008 at 21:35
Every Scotchman has a farmhouse under his Tam 'O' Shanter !
Replied: 26th Jan 2008 at 22:28
When we were digging out the foundations for Wigan Sea Cadet boat shed we found it hard work because of the buried house bricks. A guy came up to us and said they were from the farm house that used to be there.
Replied: 28th Oct 2008 at 16:40
I have heard the same thing about Pennington Flash.Dont know how true it is though.
Replied: 28th Oct 2008 at 19:30
Let me put you right once again tonker. There is a farmhouse in the middle of Scotsmans Flash.Many years ago when the water was very clear, we used to go swimming in the flash.About 50 yards out from the canal, we used to go under the water. Going down about 15 feet, we could easily see the old farmhouse.
Replied: 28th Oct 2008 at 21:30
Brendaft ... You talk shite.
There has never been a farm where Scotsmans Flash is now. Neither has there been one where Pennington Flash is now.
Mining subsidence might have helped to hold the water, but there has always been flooding along that fault line.
In any case, mining subsidence doesn't create 15 feet of subsidence. The 'flash' is only 6 feet deep.
It's a tale, told to lads, by dads, year after year until it becomes 'true'.
Replied: 28th Oct 2008 at 23:04
tonker you are full of misknowledge. I have swam in the Scotsmans and dived down it. I have seen the farmhouse.
Replied: 28th Oct 2008 at 23:12
Brendaft, the shite you are full of could fertilize a field big enough to feed five thousand!
Replied: 28th Oct 2008 at 23:39
Tonker - Goose Green isn't in Pemberton - it's in Goose Green in Wigan - same as Winstanley is in Wigan and Pemberton is in Wigan....etc etc.
Replied: 28th Oct 2008 at 23:51
Goose Green is in Pemberton. FACT.
Marus Bridge is in Winstanley.
Highfield is in Pemberton.
Worsley Mesnes is in Pemberton.
Winstanley is in Winstanley.
Since 1972, all have been in the Metropolitan Borough 'OF' Wigan (local government area).
Wigan itself is also in that local government area and Wigan is a separate place to all the others.
Replied: 29th Oct 2008 at 00:20
Tonker is in La-La-Land, chewin' on 'is Do-Do...........Fact
Replied: 29th Oct 2008 at 00:28
Art, Get to Bed. You'll never get up in the morning!
Anyway, you know I'm right.
Replied: 29th Oct 2008 at 00:38
Anyone got any scuba diving gear?
Replied: 29th Oct 2008 at 09:12
When the Sea Cadets were using Scotsmans Flash, we didn't have a boathouse. The boats were left on the flash & the two x 2 man canoes were housed in a barn belonging to an old farm as you came down the entry off the main road to the flash.
The barn at the time was being used by a skin curer,(stunk rotten). Rabbit skins etc. pegged out all over the walls.
About 1951/2, we moved all the boats & equipment to the 'cut at Appley Bridge, by the side of the British legion,(it was a wooden shed then), & Finch House nearby was still lived in.
The skipper of the sea cadets at the time was Walter Somers (Olivers' son)
Replied: 29th Oct 2008 at 09:28
I believe that in the 1950s Finch House in Appley Bridge was split up into flats.My parents lived in one before I was born.
Replied: 29th Oct 2008 at 09:43
Tonker me and my mate have been into the farmhouse. It looks like it has been raining in. Only about 50 deep.Not hard to get down to.
Replied: 29th Oct 2008 at 17:13
The people living in Finch House in the 50's, were the Dowding family. John, who was in the sea cadets, his mother & his sisters, twin girls.
it was demolished & replaced by the Finch Mill estate, (the one that flooded in the 60's/70's)
Replied: 30th Oct 2008 at 01:21
this is all new to me... i never heard this said before.... it's interesting though
Replied: 30th Oct 2008 at 20:14
Thats a shame...would have been more interesting if it were...
Replied: 30th Oct 2008 at 22:03
Talking of =Flashes = is it true there is one at the far side of Ince Cemetary I was told as a child that some of the graves had been flodded by it and the coffins were seen floating on it as being very old the coffins would be made of proper wood and the contents would not by then be heavy so there -fore would float / True or not ??
Replied: 1st Nov 2008 at 08:29
speaking of coffins apparently my grt grandads coffin was blown to top when a bomb fell on goose green.... and me grt granma said........ he wer to bloody nowt lie down when he wer livin and hes to bloody nowt lie down naaaaa as hes deud... i guess he had a temper
Replied: 1st Nov 2008 at 09:01
I too was told as a child that there was a farm under Scotsmans Flash but I think it is just a myth. If you look at old-maps.co.uk there is no sign of any building where the Flash is now.
Replied: 8th Nov 2008 at 08:53
It is there. I have swam into the front room.
Replied: 8th Nov 2008 at 20:01
The Finch house belonged to the Wrightington Estate and I remember going with my aunt to collect the rent.
Replied: 9th Nov 2008 at 07:52
would have to see it before I believed it
Replied: 9th Nov 2008 at 11:00
Tried to get onto old maps uk - have used recently - can find server - is it a problem else where - I am in Brunei? Gutted cos was great site. Can some one try it?
Replied: 9th Nov 2008 at 12:57
There is definitely a farmhouse underneath Pennington Flash - I have seen photographs of it - taken one hot summer when the water level dropped.
Replied: 9th Apr 2013 at 14:48
Stick to topic you wrong un resurrectionist.
Thread is about Scotmash. Not Pennington Flash.
Replied: 9th Apr 2013 at 14:57
It could be a farm labourers house, not a farmhouse
Replied: 9th Apr 2013 at 14:59
Or a really bad (Or good) bedwetting farmer?
Replied: 9th Apr 2013 at 17:29
Last edited by Mac: 9th Apr 2013 at 17:29:17
How did he know it was the front room?Did it have better curtains than the others.
Replied: 9th Apr 2013 at 19:47
There might or might not be a farmhouse in Scotsmans, but I heard there's a 300lb, 18ft long pike in there capable of eating cattle, is it true?
Replied: 9th Apr 2013 at 22:51
My grandma was born in poolstock in 1897 and lived there for 70 yrs ,i once asked her about the supposed farmhouse.She said it was a myth and Scotsmans was an old gravel pit.No farmhouse but maybe there could be some form of building relating to the workings.
Replied: 10th Apr 2013 at 04:15
The pike we used to call Scarface,people said they had seen it take ducks off the surface ,again a load of nonsense.
Replied: 10th Apr 2013 at 04:17
I heard it lived in the house and did nothing all day bar sitting in an armchair wearing kippers and smoking a pike.
Replied: 10th Apr 2013 at 12:24
a mate of mine said there was part of a stone wall somewhere in the middle he had seen it in the summer of 59 when the water level was very low,and yes at one time the flash was home to some seriously large pike and perch.
Replied: 10th Apr 2013 at 21:46
does any one think the building of the pemberton loop line circa 1885/89 had anything to do with the land flooding.
Replied: 10th Apr 2013 at 21:48
Flashes are usually the result of mining subsidence, & Pearson & Knowles Pits were in that area..
Replied: 11th Apr 2013 at 01:18
Scotsman Flash is approx 12 inches deep at its shallowest- when canoeing you are unable to paddle normally!
Replied: 12th Apr 2013 at 19:53
Try going further out.
Replied: 13th Apr 2013 at 15:05
speaking as an original hawkley hall'er, ( i was one of the first people to be born on that estate in the late 60's) I was always told there was a farmhouse under scotmans flash, but then again i was also told there was a 'pathway' where you could walk across the middle of the flash from one end to the other that was only knee deep at the most,- both of which i doubt very much
Replied: 13th Apr 2013 at 23:36
Last edited by mick-dorset: 14th Apr 2013 at 17:42:34
I tell ya tis true, I was the farm dog and it's just under all about here.
Replied: 14th Apr 2013 at 12:37
my grandad told me about the farmhouse under scotsmans flash
Replied: 23rd Apr 2013 at 22:59
Mine you! Didn't that old farmer McDonald own it and because of that 'Dammed' leaking roof he buggered off in his big mac with a couple of sheep and some chickens to open a fast food place?
Replied: 23rd Apr 2013 at 23:28
I was born in Byrom St Poolstock and my Dad used to tell me and my brother about the farmhouse. And if you look at old 19c maps you can see that all of that area was farmland. You can find the maps online but I have misremembered how.
Replied: 26th Apr 2013 at 11:52
"... I have misremembered .."
Replied: 26th Apr 2013 at 13:50
Great word! Is it a neologism?
Replied: 26th Apr 2013 at 14:24
How many neologists are using this site?
Replied: 27th Apr 2013 at 09:54
Who needs Oxford when we have Wigan!
Replied: 27th Apr 2013 at 09:55
On the topic of farms!
Didn't every kid, during the sixties,seventies and eighties, in the Wigan area hear, from one source or another, about a farm being under the water surface of Scotsman's Flash?
Probably, by the end of that long hot summer of '76, more than 50% of the population of Wigan had been down to Scotsman's Flash to see if the tale were true.
Replied: 27th Apr 2013 at 10:05
Last edited by melodyman: 27th Apr 2013 at 10:55:26
I spent my youth playing in and around the scotsmans, the depth ranged from zero on Heathcoats land to a max of around 16'feet.In th late 1940's 47/48/49, one year we had torrential rain and the flash flooded really high and sea cadets boats broke free from their moorings, they used to moored about 60yds from Heathcoats land. Anyway one of the canoe's drifted up on the railway side and my mate Kieth Wignall and I had a ball we spent allday in this canoe and when we had finished we rowed into the rush beds near the island and tied it down with the rushes. When we went back to find it a few days later we could not find it the water had risen by aroud two feet and only the tops of the rushes were showing.It was in the late 60's twenty years or so later that I saw it again it had been wash up to the wall on the canal side all the canvas had rotted, it was good to see an old friend that gave us so much pleasure that day.
By the way in 1959 it was a really hot and dry spring and summer the scotsmans flash was lower than I had ever seen it, another mate of mine Gerald Hodgekiss went for swim, we got in from the railway side Gerald got into his bus innertube and I just swam accross to the island. When we started back we paddled heading for the tunnel that that goes under the railway line and we walked all the way back to within 30yards of the railway embankment,and the water was no more than knee deep all the way across except once when we got level with the cuvert Gerald decided he would walk across to it he took two step and dissapeared we had a good laugh at that.
Replied: 15th Apr 2014 at 19:31
theres a wall in the middle, in 1959 the flash was at its lowest ever seen and that INCLUDES 1976.there is no farmhouse,mr heathcote's farm buildings where the farmhouse for that land/water.
Replied: 18th Apr 2014 at 23:35
Anyone who watched Bergerac on TV may be interested to know that the farmhouse he lived in with his girlfriend is now at the bottom of a reservoir.
Replied: 19th Apr 2014 at 12:38
great story doug
Replied: 15th Dec 2014 at 11:17
Is the seagull alive or is it a false one?
Replied: 17th Dec 2014 at 00:30
Sorry, my mistake. It's not a seagull. It's a pigeon, called Walter!
Replied: 17th Dec 2014 at 09:43
There is an old building under Pennington Flash...for a photo see Bob Blakeman's Wigan...A(n) Historical Souvenir P27
Replied: 17th Dec 2014 at 13:52
Bob Blakeman's Wigan? What the hell is Pennington Flash doing in a book about Wigan?
Is there anything about 'the real Wigan' in it?
Replied: 17th Dec 2014 at 15:06
There was a Worsley Mesnes farmhouse on the Northwest corner of the flash but it doesn't look like it was in the water.
Maybe the fields belonging to the farm are under the water.
Replied: 17th Dec 2014 at 17:29
winder the ruins are those of the medieval Urmston in the Meadows house
Replied: 17th Dec 2014 at 19:10
This is a 1927 map showing where the farm was.
Replied: 18th Dec 2014 at 11:30
Winder the Urmston in the Meadows building is the one pictured in the above mentioned book that stuck up out of Pennington Flash at one time.I think your farm at Worsley Mesnes may be the one a chap I know delivered milk from.
Replied: 18th Dec 2014 at 15:26
Last edited by flaggy delf: 18th Dec 2014 at 15:33:14
There's a farmhouse loaf in Scotsman's if that's any help. I know cos I chucked it in.
Replied: 21st Dec 2014 at 16:30
Every Scotchman has a farmhouse under his Tam 'O' Shanter !
No such thing as a Scotchman you peanut, its a Scotsman.
Replied: 10th Jan 2015 at 03:35
But, in this case, it's actually 'Scotman'!
Replied: 12th Jan 2015 at 18:36
Maybe this will help or if it doesn't it's good to have. You can layer the maps and zoom in. Change the transparency and view what is there now. Even aerial view ones
Replied: 15th Feb 2015 at 23:15
PS: Too bloody hard for me is that!
Replied: 15th Feb 2015 at 23:33
Last edited by tonker: 15th Feb 2015 at 23:37:14
It's better on a computer than a tablet. Could be more user friendly but the detail is great. Thanks for the link tonker
Replied: 16th Feb 2015 at 10:55
a stone wall and that's all
Replied: 2nd Mar 2015 at 19:44
New here , just
Come across this we
Live backing onto flash & been digging bottom of garden , found old clogs , pans , lots of bricks lots of milk bottles a coal holder lots
Of bottles very interesting ????
Replied: 7th Apr 2021 at 11:09
Kenny Cunliffe & Roy Darbyshire lived in that farm under Scotsmans Flash,Tonker should know he was their Buddy.& there was a Chippy next door,
Replied: 7th Apr 2021 at 16:49
There was a farm there, but not where the Flash is, and looking on the map, and depending on exactly where in Rushdene yoo are digging, you could be digging on the site of the old farm buildings
Replied: 7th Apr 2021 at 17:24
No she couldn't. Her row of houses are built on where the actual flash was and was filled in!
"Roy Darbyshire, Roy Darbyshire"!
Replied: 7th Apr 2021 at 23:17
Last edited by tonker: 7th Apr 2021 at 23:27:56
Thankyou Tommy ????
Replied: 9th Apr 2021 at 13:45
Why thank someone for giving you false information?
Replied: 9th Apr 2021 at 18:09