The Old Dog Uholland late 60s
I remember Josie and Jack who ran the pub and can remember going with an old friend Pauline Scully who married Alan Berry and Fred Unsworth I think his wife runs a pub now there were a few of us and I have lots of fond memories it would be nice to remenice with anyone interested.
Started: 12th May 2013 at 21:37
Can I just ask if Alan Berry came from Upholland? as the name rings a bell. I lived at Upholland and went in the old dog but I wasn't a regular. I tended to go in The Vic more than the Dog.
Replied: 13th May 2013 at 16:56
My mother (R.I.P.) often told the story about when her father returned from the first World War (1918) he traveled from Wigan by bus to Abbey Lakes then he walked through UpHolland village and started to walk up Alma Hill. My mother and her mother had gone down Alma Hill from there home at Hall Green to meet him.
When he got to the Old Dog (Owd Dog) the publican came out and wouldn't let him go past without having a glass of beer, to celebrate his home coming
Replied: 13th May 2013 at 19:28
Yes Alan Berry came from Upholland he Married my friend Pauline Scully sadley Pauline died a few years ago. Fred Unsworth was my boyfriend back then in the 60s. I don't suppose he'd remember me now I beleive he Married Carol and they have 2 daughters.
Replied: 19th May 2013 at 17:19
Where in UpHolland did Alan Berry and Pauline Scully live ? The names ring a bell, but I left UpHolland in 1967 are you talking about that time ?
Replied: 24th May 2013 at 23:10
ipaspull, is it the Freddie Unsworth that played foot ball? if so he also has a son, and lives in Pemberton. Was a great player in the local leagues.
Replied: 25th May 2013 at 09:57
Hi Fordie yes he did play football, I watched his games many times and Sat night was match of the day at his house after we'd been to the Old Dog, those were the days eh.
Replied: 25th May 2013 at 11:20
Hi Dennis I know Fred lived in Windsor Rd and Alan lived in the same Area. When he married Pauline they once lived in Orrell & I was once told they'd moved to Standish, I also remember a guy named Derek I think his dad ran the Alma Inn and another guy named Johnny those were the days. I live on the Shetland Isles now so no chance of meeting my old friends as I only visit Wigan twice a year I have a son who lives at Marus Bridge with his wife and their son.
Replied: 25th May 2013 at 11:27
Hi jpaspull - I live in New Zealand and there is a 'Shetland Isles Society' here.
There are many people here who either emigrated from the Shetland Isles or are descendants of people who emigrated from the Shetland Isles.
Getting back to UpHolland, do the surnames Ashbridge or Hopkinson mean anything to you ?
Just curious ....
Replied: 25th May 2013 at 20:10
Hi Dennis the names don't ring a bell most times you knew peoples faces and their first mames, I knew Freds cousins Joyce and Les but only for a short while, went with Fred to his aunts once for dinner and they laughed because I asked for a knife I didn't know many people who didn't use one and me a Wiganer eh bah gum. I think half of England have come to live in Shetland one of my grandaughters teachers came from Leigh and three of the Drs come from north of Eng.Believe it or not we've had the best weather for the last 18 month. Although I'm sure you can beat us for the sunshine. Take care Jean.
Replied: 26th May 2013 at 21:48
The use of the past tense about the Old Dog Inn prompted me to do a little research. I read that the Inn was turned into "three terrace cottages " last year. Can anyone tell me if the Old Dog was demolished or remodeled only. Does it still look the same from the exterior?
I live three thousand miles away so I cannot check for myself. I am sure there were sound financial considerations, but, gee, I do hate to see all these wonderful historic buildings go.
Replied: 23rd Jun 2013 at 01:30
pauline was a friend of my friend , believe she worked at the petrol station orrell, she was good company to go out with had many a laugh , they hadnt moved long before she died
Replied: 23rd Jun 2013 at 10:50
That's wierd after my asking about them. I worked at Orrell petrol station too, about mid to late 60's
Replied: 23rd Jun 2013 at 17:48
was that the one in st james road ?
Replied: 23rd Jun 2013 at 19:47
Whacker, the Od Dog still stands but has been remodelled into apartments. It looks just the same with minor adjustments. Many of the old pubs around Wigan have bit the dust and have either been converted or demolished. The Old Dog was full of character (and characters!)
Replied: 23rd Jun 2013 at 21:47
Thank you LindaWarrior. In a family history I am writing I give an account of the Highwayman of Up Holland and I wanted to be sure that my entry about the Old Dog today is accurate. I appreciate the information .
Replied: 24th Jun 2013 at 10:11
Whacker - Have you read 'George Lyon - Up Holland Highwayman ?' ?
It was written by Dr Allan Miller.
I have got a copy here (in New Zealand) it is marked 350 / 537 so it maybe a limited edition.
Replied: 25th Jun 2013 at 04:54
Dr Allan Miller was my english teacher at Grammar School. He was writing that book when I was in his year. He found that I had a great love of history and especially local history, I lived at UpHolland at the time, and we enjoyed many discussions about it, I can't remember now if I told him about the portrait, reputed to be of George Lyon, that hangs in Lancaster Castle, or if he told me, but I know he got a copy of it for the book. He showed it to me and being about fourteen, I could only think what a handsome chap he was for a highwayman
Replied: 25th Jun 2013 at 15:31
No, Dennis - I have read a lot about the Highwayman, but I do no recall that one. It certainly would seem to be a limited edition, and is probably not available. Hope your weather is better than ours in the northeast of America - 100F yesterday and humid with it.
Whoa Weatherwax! did not know there was a portrait of the Highwayman. A copy would be great - I must try to find one. Good tip, thank you.
Replied: 25th Jun 2013 at 20:27
Weatherwax - in the book is a photograph with the following :- 'This painting, reputed to be of George Lyon before his execution at Lancaster on 22 April 1815, portrays him as a handsome figure and this heroic image has persisted.'
Replied: 25th Jun 2013 at 20:35
Dennis! Could I ask...would you be very kind and scan the picture and email it to me? I would be most grateful. If you can see your way to doing this, I will ask Brian to send you my email addy.
Replied: 26th Jun 2013 at 02:21
Last edited by whacker: 26th Jun 2013 at 02:22:27
There we go, I knew I remembered it. If I remember correctly, it was a full length portrait, and don't forget whacker, it's REPUTED to be him, although I must admit ,I would love to see it myself again.
By the way, do you know the story of the female Ghost that haunts the White Lion? She is connected to George Lyon, as is her story.
Replied: 26th Jun 2013 at 14:48
I wonder if Dr. Miller thought the picture was of the Highwayman?
If Lyon posed for it, that would seem to be in character. Most crooks tend to hide, but I can imagine Lyon wishing to be immortalized in paint. (Not that I know a lot of crooks.)
Do you know when Dr. Miller wrote his biography, Weatherwax?
Yes, I did come across the White Lady ghost, but I omitted it from the history I am writing - it seemed a little distant from my subject.
Replied: 26th Jun 2013 at 15:44
I dont know the exact date, but it would be between 1961 and 1964
Replied: 26th Jun 2013 at 17:46
The portrait is full length, he is wearing a full length jacket which comes down to his midcalves. He is looking back over his left shoulder and he has just climbed several steps.
The book is under strict copyright law.
A 'chapter' of the book deals with the Ghost House in Church Street UpHolland which was associated with George Lyon until it was demolished in 1934.
The writings by Ellen Weeton (who was a contemporary of George Lyon) detail a comprehensive coverage of UpHolland in those days.
Replied: 26th Jun 2013 at 19:37
As well as 'George Lyon - Up Holland Highwayman ?' Dr Allan Miller also wrote 'Orrell in old picture postcards' - 'UpHolland in old picture postcards volume 2' and 'UpHolland Church 1307 - 2007'.
He may have written others, but those are the only books by Allan Miller that I have.
Replied: 26th Jun 2013 at 23:14
I also have the books that Dennis mentions they are UpHolland in Old Picture Postcards (ISBN 90 288 62269 / CIP), UpHolland in Old Picture Postcards Volume 2 (ISBN 90-288-0954-6) and Orrell in Old Picture Postcards (ISBN 90-288-2617-3). I think they are still available from Amazon. Mine belonged to my mum who had them all signed by Allan Miller and very interesting they are too, especially since I was born and lived in Tontine in cottages that were demolished to make way for the M58.
Replied: 30th Jun 2013 at 19:56
Linda - mine are also signed 'Best Wishes Allan Miller' - I note that your surname is Highton.
By chance would you have been related to a Tom Highton - who lived next door to the Orrell Railway station, he was a coal merchant in Orrell 50 years ago.
Other Highton members of the family lived around the St James Road area. Other surnames related include Liptrot and Dickinson.
Replied: 1st Jul 2013 at 02:06
Hi Dennis. I married into the Highton family but they are not related to the people you mention. My husband's family were related to Massey family from Mount Zion area of Pemberton. My mother-in-law happens to be a Liptrot though!! My surname was Calderbank. My mum was widowed in her early 20s when I was only 18 months old and remarried in 1971 to Albert Regan (brick haulage) from St James's Rd. I went to St James RC Primary and then St Peter's Sec. My stepsister married (and divorced) a Liptrot. Oo-Oo the world gets smaller & smaller
Replied: 1st Jul 2013 at 15:22
I found a copy of Dr. Miller's book on Lyon, very cheap and not at all rare. For what it is worth, I think, as a one time portrait painter myself (determined rather than talented!) the painting in the book, what used to be known as a frontispiece, is problematic. It seems unfinished. Either the fence behind him tapers off to nowhere or its perspective is wrong and is meant to be a continuation of the fence to our left. The steps lean to our left and are out of kileter to the horizontal castle in the background. The are other problems of structure but I will not go into them. In short, the work is amateurish. I do not know the size of the painting and if it is full size it may have more detail than is apparent from the photograph. As shown, the face lacks detail, the shadows used normally by a painter to delineate a face absent. George is outdoors but the light beneath his left eye comes from below, not above as one would expect. This could be explained by the placement of a reflector - a trick not unknown to painters at the time, but that is precluded by an examination of the fence uprights. Where they face the same direction as George's lit face, the same plane of the posts is in shadow. My best guess is that the whole thing is painted up out of some-one's imagination, not from life. I am sure there are more skilled painters out there than I, so comments would be welcome.
The photo is way outside of English copyright laws so if anyone would like a copy of the picture, email me and I shall be happy to send it to you.
Replied: 17th Jul 2013 at 17:31
Last edited by whacker: 17th Jul 2013 at 17:42:12
I worked with bloke called Derek Arden who used to drink in the old dog he was a chargehand electrician at bold colliery good bloke
Replied: 26th Jul 2013 at 12:55
I know this post is a few years old but I am researching my family tree and came across this post. My parents are Pauline and Alan Berry. They met in the Old Dog in 1969 and married soon afterwards! My dad still lives in Standish and still races his pigeons. Was lovely to read your memories of them both.
Replied: 18th Oct 2020 at 15:50
Replied: 18th Oct 2020 at 18:50
Last edited by lozzab1970: 19th Oct 2020 at 13:33:15