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EX DOWNALL GREENERS 23

Posted by: bambam (3059)

Enjoy folks, thanks for all the input on thread 22.

Replied: 9th Jul 2023 at 23:57

Posted by: bambam (3059)

Hope this is better for you bentlegs.

Replied: 10th Jul 2023 at 00:00

Posted by: whups (13367) 

was the other too full dav ? .

Replied: 10th Jul 2023 at 00:11

Posted by: bambam (3059)

It's time consuming Bri for anyone who works with tablet or android, with computer it's easier to page up and down.

Replied: 10th Jul 2023 at 09:21

Posted by: bentlegs (5327)

Thanks a million Dave

Replied: 10th Jul 2023 at 11:19

Posted by: bambam (3059)

You are very welcome bentlegs.

Replied: 11th Jul 2023 at 23:39

Posted by: Dagutd27 (681) 

There's a some sort of machine and cabin in field at back of simms Rd Inn now towards the dag end mebe start of them houses that's guin up

Replied: 12th Jul 2023 at 07:14

Posted by: PeterP (11397)

Which side of Billinge Rd are they planning to build house? Is it between Garswood Rd and Smock Lane or Billinge Rd and Birch Grove?

Replied: 12th Jul 2023 at 08:26

Posted by: bambam (3059)

Not heard nothing about building property up there Malc, I'm surprised they've not put more houses when they built surgery on farmer Hunts corn field.

Replied: 12th Jul 2023 at 08:44

Posted by: PeterP (11397)

Bambam when the Quaker pit was working they had to pump a lot of water from their workings, Some of the workings must have been towards the fields behind Birch Grove and that land was full of shifting sand and every so often the ground would open up like small sink holes.

Replied: 12th Jul 2023 at 12:09

Posted by: bambam (3059)

Oh right, so that would explain why it's not been built on, I know it got flooded at the dip in Birch grove for many years, right outside my grandparents facing the allotments.

Replied: 12th Jul 2023 at 15:54

Posted by: sammys (276) 

They are building right behind simms Road towards smock lane

Replied: 12th Jul 2023 at 23:07

Posted by: PeterP (11397)

Yet another loss of Green Belt land

Replied: 13th Jul 2023 at 07:59

Posted by: bambam (3059)

There is a lot of land going toward Simms rd, do farmers not grow nothing on it now, I remember going potato picking on leyland green rd in the field where the old barn still stands today.

Replied: 13th Jul 2023 at 08:13

Posted by: PeterP (11397)

Bambam don't forget the field on the right hand side from the end of the houses on LGR to the entrance to the red gate is /as been up for sale/sold with plans for eight houses

Replied: 13th Jul 2023 at 09:32

Posted by: bambam (3059)

Yes I remember the land there leading down to stream, it seems all the land we played on as kids has all been built on.

Replied: 13th Jul 2023 at 10:55

Posted by: Dagutd27 (681) 

The land at of Leyland Green Rd on right where thi owd farm house was belongs to Murphys

Replied: 13th Jul 2023 at 13:40

Posted by: bambam (3059)

Which Murphy Malc is it warren Murphy.

Replied: 13th Jul 2023 at 14:58

Posted by: bentlegs (5327)

In the1950s there was a pit shaft on the land you are talking about I remember it having a brick wall round it but I can't remember it being filled in may still be there ,

Replied: 13th Jul 2023 at 15:38

Posted by: whups (13367) 

no dav the farmers murphy,s . but i think they sold up lock stock & barrel over 40yrs ago & went back to ireland .

Replied: 13th Jul 2023 at 17:00

Posted by: Dagutd27 (681) 

Murphy plant from golborne they do all railways bridge's tunneling all sorts of stuff like that

Replied: 13th Jul 2023 at 19:21

Posted by: bambam (3059)

I remember Irish Murphys, bentlegs there was a shaft in the left hand side field as you went up red gates, it was fenced off.

Replied: 13th Jul 2023 at 19:58

Posted by: PeterP (11397)

Bambam there was at one time 3 shafts which were fenced off on LGR one on the left and two on the right just past Redgate road, Again with the Quaker pit pumping water out and the shafts sinking exposing the top of them, Probably only back filled with soil and rubble when they had been finished with. When they were building the houses on Victoria Road the digger exposed a shaft on the right hand side so they did not put a house there but put a footpath through to Hamilton Road instead.

Replied: 13th Jul 2023 at 20:21

Posted by: sammys (276) 

Don't look to the past the future is the new norm keep everyone living longer 1????

Replied: 13th Jul 2023 at 22:46

Posted by: bambam (3059)

I didn't know about the shafts on right, but I remember the footpath from Victoria rd to Hamilton rd, we used play on a large tree there about half way down while construction was underway.

Replied: 13th Jul 2023 at 23:25

Posted by: whups (13367) 

there was another one in the field opposite birch grove dav . in line with the garages at the top .

Replied: 13th Jul 2023 at 23:55

Posted by: bambam (3059)

Don't remember that one either Bri, so it was where they built bungalows.

Replied: 14th Jul 2023 at 00:16

Posted by: Dagutd27 (681) 

With thi amount of pits that was in A in m area I'm not surprised there's shafts everywhere

Replied: 14th Jul 2023 at 06:49

Posted by: bambam (3059)

Here's one for you Malc, there were 8 four bedroom council houses on estate, the majority was 3 bedroom houses, do you know how many were 2 bedroomed.

Replied: 14th Jul 2023 at 12:18

Posted by: Dagutd27 (681) 

I know there was in 4 in Lilac avenue Happy birthday to you there's 1 or 2 wishing you happy birthday on Facebook pal have a good un

Replied: 14th Jul 2023 at 18:51

Posted by: bambam (3059)

Thanks Malc.

Replied: 14th Jul 2023 at 20:52

Posted by: bambam (3059)

I estimated there was 18 2 bedroom houses but I don't know how many there are in Hawthorn avenue.

Replied: 15th Jul 2023 at 12:23
Last edited by bambam: 16th Jul 2023 at 22:53:15

Posted by: Dagutd27 (681) 

Is yours a 2 Brian

Replied: 15th Jul 2023 at 14:44

Posted by: whups (13367) 

it was half-way in the field dav .

Replied: 15th Jul 2023 at 14:53

Posted by: tonker (28058) 

Birch Grove was submerged at half-eight this morning, near the bungalows!

Replied: 17th Jul 2023 at 09:33

Posted by: PeterP (11397)

In the past cannot remember Birch Grove ever flooding Maybe some Downall Greener can shed some light on why it floods

Replied: 17th Jul 2023 at 11:25

Posted by: whups (13367) 

i lived there & it was always a problem coming down from the fields . i remember at 1 time we had a cloudburst & the liptrots & robert,s had to get out of their houses in a boat . it was flooded all the way up passed our house at no-62 birch gr upto hawthorn ave . we had to climb over the wall in wellies just to go around the corner where my grandmother lived at no-31 hawthorn ave . suprised you cant remember dav as your morris lived next door to the robert,s ? .

Replied: 17th Jul 2023 at 11:33

Posted by: bambam (3059)

I do remember it Bri, we lived at 50 Birch grove before moving to Elm avenue, it always flooded right outside as I mentioned earlier up thread, our Maurice had photos of the flood which I have seen but they got lost when he died, it showed Maurice, liptrots, Lowes, Roberts, and livesleys playing in it.

Replied: 17th Jul 2023 at 12:30

Posted by: whups (13367) 

Replied: 17th Jul 2023 at 12:46

Posted by: tonker (28058) 

This morning it was flooded from number 50 up to Hawthorn Ave., the deepest bit around 58, where the speed bumps are.!

Replied: 17th Jul 2023 at 19:18

Posted by: bambam (3059)

What you doing up there tonker, you looking for a property.

Replied: 17th Jul 2023 at 20:35

Posted by: tonker (28058) 

Taking my grandson to school, he goes to Rectory. He's staying with us while his dad and mum swan off to Spain for a week!

Replied: 17th Jul 2023 at 22:57

Posted by: bambam (3059)

That's the place to be our summer seems to have gone, hope we get a little more sun afore winter approaches.

Replied: 17th Jul 2023 at 23:14

Posted by: whups (13367) 

tracy kelly lives at no-58 dav .

Replied: 18th Jul 2023 at 00:05

Posted by: Dagutd27 (681) 

I know it put a lot of the wet stuff down but you don't gully lorries now days they used be round all time we was waiting for them our little cars out and anougher thing is there used to little streams round farmers fields where water could make too

Replied: 18th Jul 2023 at 06:49

Posted by: bambam (3059)

I think billy lowes ex wife (Shiela) lived there at one time to Bri, Malc all the streams in farmers fields will still be there when the downpours fall.

Replied: 18th Jul 2023 at 08:33

Posted by: whups (13367) 

shiela lives at no-60 dav & has been ever since her divorce from billy . ethel lived there who used to serve in the bell .

Replied: 18th Jul 2023 at 11:58

Posted by: bambam (3059)

Oh right Bri, I thought Sheila moved into Littlers old house, I knew where Ethel cusack lived thanks for update.

Replied: 18th Jul 2023 at 13:13

Posted by: whups (13367) 

do you remember who lived there before littlers dav ? .

Replied: 19th Jul 2023 at 11:53

Posted by: bambam (3059)

No Bri, I only remember john & Lottie next door then Heskeths.

Replied: 19th Jul 2023 at 15:37

Posted by: whups (13367) 

the names were the regans . paddy regan & his wife then moved with their son sean to that hairdressers in old rd . can you remember that dav ,it was near alan jones,s .

Replied: 20th Jul 2023 at 00:00

Posted by: bambam (3059)

Yes Bri I remember hairdressers, we walked every dinner time down old rd from school, either going to skitters or market.

Replied: 20th Jul 2023 at 08:26

Posted by: PeterP (11397)

Am I right in thinking the hairdressers had a corner door with wide steps leading to it and a flagged frontage, If I am correct then if you google it now you would not recognise the building, It was on the corner of Eastwell Street

Replied: 20th Jul 2023 at 09:54

Posted by: bambam (3059)

Just been informed of more sad news, Jack scully has passed on I knew Jack well and was shocked to hear the news, had many pint in Bell with him, condolences to his family. R.I.P Jack.

Replied: 20th Jul 2023 at 18:52

Posted by: Dagutd27 (681) 

RIP Jack scully great lad was Jack I was only asking Trish How's he doing other sat sad news god bless

Replied: 21st Jul 2023 at 07:22

Posted by: gaffer (7982) 

The hairdressers was Ronnies who lived with Bill Ratcliffe in the house originally built for Doctor Fulton on Downall Green Road.
Eastwell Road was named after the Gerard’s country house in Kent.

Replied: 21st Jul 2023 at 08:23

Posted by: PeterP (11397)

May Jack Rest in Peace

Replied: 21st Jul 2023 at 11:16

Posted by: bambam (3059)

Thanks gaffer, that name was very familiar I remember landlord of the star (Jack) lived across road from shop when he retired.

Replied: 21st Jul 2023 at 11:28

Posted by: suesa (645)

Such sad news to hear of Jack passing away. He was such a character to us old Downallgreeners. He always stopped to speak to my mum if he saw her and always, always called her 'Smiler' God Bless him.
RIP Jack

Replied: 21st Jul 2023 at 20:47
Last edited by suesa: 22nd Jul 2023 at 10:06:53

Posted by: ena malcup (4151) 

Would someone be kind enough, please, to indicate which house on Downall Green Road is the one referred to by gaffer at 08-23.

Replied: 21st Jul 2023 at 21:30

Posted by: bambam (3059)

Sorry ena I don't know where the house was on Downall green rd, I've never heard of a doctor around there, hopefully gaffer will enlighten us.

Replied: 21st Jul 2023 at 22:41

Posted by: gaffer (7982) 

Replied: 22nd Jul 2023 at 08:33

Posted by: ena malcup (4151) 

Thank you, gaffer.

Replied: 22nd Jul 2023 at 10:08

Posted by: Dagutd27 (681) 

Dav thy must have upset Brian putting info on here first about Jack scully

Replied: 22nd Jul 2023 at 10:33

Posted by: bambam (3059)

I put it on Malc because Bri has had enough distress lately with losing so many members of his family, Bri always informs us as to what's happening on estate and he rang me to tell me about Jack so it's only right for someone else to give the sad news out, poor lads been through enough lately.

Replied: 22nd Jul 2023 at 11:16

Posted by: gaffer (7982) 

Shortly after the Fultons took up residence in Downall Green road they had new next door neighbours, newly weds Joan and George.
When they found out that that the young couple hadn’t been able to afford a honeymoon they promptly gave them enough money to have a honeymoon to remember.
Sometime later George was front page news when he was a union leader and organiser of a strike at the Vulcan loco works. Death threats he received were taken seriously by the authorities leading to special branch staying at their home and monitoring their telephone. I got the story first hand from Joan a long time member of Park Lane chapel.

Replied: 22nd Jul 2023 at 14:47

Posted by: bambam (3059)

Very interesting that gaffer, but must of been awful for his family, my friends father worked there for many years.

Replied: 22nd Jul 2023 at 19:06

Posted by: Dagutd27 (681) 

I was down nr old vulcan works a month ogo big changes down there we all houses going up now

Replied: 22nd Jul 2023 at 20:23

Posted by: bambam (3059)

Gordon's dad worked there for many years Malc.

Replied: 22nd Jul 2023 at 20:38

Posted by: Dagutd27 (681) 

Morning David I didn't know that I thought he was a pit Mon nice down there some cracking old houses built for workers back in day bit like port sun light on wirral leaver brothers all looked after not like today dog eat doy yey

Replied: 23rd Jul 2023 at 07:51

Posted by: PeterP (11397)

The big detached house to the left of the terrace at one time belonged to the Sutcliffes of the Tripe empireMy wife lived in the next row of terraced houses when I 1st met her

Replied: 23rd Jul 2023 at 08:17

Posted by: bambam (3059)

I remember Mr sutcliffe and his tripe stall on Wigan market, his wife always worked on there alongside him, would that be same sutcliffe peterp

Replied: 23rd Jul 2023 at 09:11

Posted by: PeterP (11397)

I think so my mother used to clean for them long before she became an home help

Replied: 23rd Jul 2023 at 09:37

Posted by: Dagutd27 (681) 

Hi I used say to mi mam wots for tay and she would say tripe we heirs on I don't know how they eat it terrible

Replied: 23rd Jul 2023 at 09:45

Posted by: bentlegs (5327)

The big detached house on Downallgreen Rd was just past the road onto Dellside Close there are about three terraced houses in between. BILL Radcliffe lived in it,

Replied: 23rd Jul 2023 at 10:45

Posted by: gaffer (7982) 

Bentlegs

If you tap on Doctor on my previous post you can open and manipulate the map. If you wish you can take it to your house. Tap on the centre of the road to move the map forward.

Replied: 23rd Jul 2023 at 11:30

Posted by: bambam (3059)

I wonder if sutcliffe ever had a stall on Ashton Market, seems funny to travel to Wigan when you could work on doorstep, I also remember your mother working as homehelp in 70s peterp.

Replied: 23rd Jul 2023 at 13:29

Posted by: PeterP (11397)

Bambam don't forget Wigan Market is a 6 day market and Ashton market was only two days even in its heyday.

Replied: 23rd Jul 2023 at 15:01

Posted by: Dagutd27 (681) 

And noday market now peter

Replied: 23rd Jul 2023 at 15:17

Posted by: bambam (3059)

Yes that's true peterp, sutcliffes stall is still in Wigan market but they have retired, it's run by Denise now but you can still get tripe, I'm not sure if cow heel pies are on sale I loved them, but bury black pudding is on sale she gets a delivery every Wednesday.

Replied: 23rd Jul 2023 at 15:22

Posted by: bambam (3059)

It went down to 1 day market Malc but that was 12 months ago, not sure about present day.

Replied: 23rd Jul 2023 at 15:24

Posted by: Dagutd27 (681) 

No market now dave not been for 4 or 5 years MY Doughter s Bethany Rachael up in greenaway used to be very busy back in day wife had a fruit stall on there too

Replied: 23rd Jul 2023 at 16:34

Posted by: bambam (3059)

They must all shop in the Gerard centre now then.

Replied: 23rd Jul 2023 at 19:33

Posted by: Dagutd27 (681) 

Morning dav no not much foot trade in there dav is Brian OK not been on for a while

Replied: 24th Jul 2023 at 06:39

Posted by: PeterP (11397)

Dagutd27 it is only 3 days ago he posted on this thread and he posted on the rugby at 1-06 this morn.

Replied: 24th Jul 2023 at 09:51

Posted by: bambam (3059)

He will be back on Malc when he's good and ready.

Replied: 24th Jul 2023 at 17:14

Posted by: Dagutd27 (681) 

Bill Sherrat died this afternoon RIP GOD bless

Replied: 24th Jul 2023 at 20:08

Posted by: bambam (3059)

That's sad news I knew Bill well, condolences to family.R.I.P Bill.

Replied: 24th Jul 2023 at 20:25

Posted by: bentlegs (5327)

Back to Leyland Green Rd. That old building on the side of the road has a preservation order on it been like that since we moved to L G R in 1948 it was was called the Pop works,

Replied: 2nd Aug 2023 at 14:54

Posted by: bambam (3059)

I always thought it to be an old barn bentlegs, I never heard of it called pop works, it's all overgrown these days.

Replied: 2nd Aug 2023 at 19:52

Posted by: whups (13367) 

i remember it as "the pop house" .

Replied: 2nd Aug 2023 at 23:54

Posted by: bambam (3059)

Did they make pop there Bri, or was it just stored.

Replied: 2nd Aug 2023 at 23:58

Posted by: whups (13367) 

i dont know dav . it,s been called that ever since i can remember .

Replied: 3rd Aug 2023 at 01:01

Posted by: Dagutd27 (681) 

Nettle pop it is then they used call it pop house it's been like that years

Replied: 3rd Aug 2023 at 12:50

Posted by: bambam (3059)

I remember spud picking in the field where that building was Malc.

Replied: 4th Aug 2023 at 14:33

Posted by: Dagutd27 (681) 

I remember taking farmers fence down make goal posts

Replied: 4th Aug 2023 at 18:27

Posted by: bambam (3059)

More sad news, Margaret cross has passed,I knew family very well, condolences to Karen and Raymond R.I.P Margaret.

Replied: 4th Aug 2023 at 21:41
Last edited by bambam: 4th Aug 2023 at 21:43:33

Posted by: whups (13367) 

and alan lomax from brocksteads who worked with my dad at the quaker pit .

Replied: 5th Aug 2023 at 11:53

Posted by: Dagutd27 (681) 

RIP to our cousin Margaret sad loss and Alan Lomax RIP GOD bless both of them

Replied: 5th Aug 2023 at 14:09

Posted by: bambam (3059)

So sad, R.I.P Alan.

Replied: 5th Aug 2023 at 17:23

Posted by: whups (13367) 

hav,nt heard owt about jack,s funeral yet dav .

Replied: 6th Aug 2023 at 11:15

Posted by: bambam (3059)

They take their time these days Bri, probably a back log.

Replied: 6th Aug 2023 at 16:21

Posted by: Dagutd27 (681) 

Some bad news Brian Clarence died last condolences to all the family RIP

Replied: 8th Aug 2023 at 09:20

Posted by: PeterP (11397)

Only thinking about "Clank" yesterday another pitman bites the dust May he rest in peace

Replied: 8th Aug 2023 at 11:09

Posted by: bambam (3059)

Sad news that, I know family very well R.I.P Brian, condolences to his wife Doreen and children Andrew, Simon, Lee , and Joanne.

Replied: 8th Aug 2023 at 11:17

Posted by: whups (13367) 

dav jack,s funeral is at the crem at ince on 25th & a family affair only .

Replied: 10th Aug 2023 at 00:03

Posted by: whups (13367) 

anyone who remembers cooks shop at the top of rectory rd she passed away today .

Replied: 10th Aug 2023 at 00:05

Posted by: gaffer (7982) 

Whups

Margaret Cook passed away on July 13th. Her funeral took place
last Thursday at Holy Trinity church.

Replied: 10th Aug 2023 at 08:07

Posted by: bambam (3059)

Thanks for info on jacks funeral Bri, so sad to hear of Margaret passing I used to run all errands on estate as a youngster to her shop, Margaret was one of George fosters daughters, I think there is only Doreen now who has sadly just lost her husband Brian.

Replied: 10th Aug 2023 at 08:20

Posted by: Dagutd27 (681) 

RIP Margaret so it was her husband s Name over shop then David I know they where George fosters Doughter s there was some shops on rectory Rd weren't there

Replied: 10th Aug 2023 at 08:56

Posted by: bambam (3059)

Yes Malc there was, I remember them all, cooks, Tommy Evans, Daintys, Annie deacon, Jack pyes, Co op and butchers.

Replied: 10th Aug 2023 at 09:02

Posted by: whups (13367) 

dont forget wilf banks the funeral director dav .

Replied: 10th Aug 2023 at 12:25

Posted by: bambam (3059)

Think that was before my time Bri, where was it situated.

Replied: 10th Aug 2023 at 13:28

Posted by: Dagutd27 (681) 

I could do wi one now boys

Replied: 10th Aug 2023 at 18:00

Posted by: bambam (3059)

I'm having one tonight in a small glass, malt whisky is my horlicks knocks me out till about 5am.

Replied: 10th Aug 2023 at 18:50

Posted by: Dagutd27 (681) 

Nice one David ???? geet in some states drinking that tackle

Replied: 11th Aug 2023 at 18:46

Posted by: bambam (3059)

Has to be treated with respect Malc.

Replied: 11th Aug 2023 at 21:01

Posted by: Dagutd27 (681) 

O yessss dav nobody towed mi when I was younger

Replied: 12th Aug 2023 at 19:25

Posted by: bambam (3059)

My daughter bought me a glenlivet special for me birthday, wow it was lovely going down but strong, I had go bed after a double.

Replied: 12th Aug 2023 at 19:53

Posted by: whups (13367) 

not far from where p richie lives dav . he had a sign up above the front door advertising the funeral parlour .

Replied: 12th Aug 2023 at 23:53

Posted by: bambam (3059)

I never knew that Bri, thanks for info.

Replied: 13th Aug 2023 at 01:07

Posted by: gaffer (7982) 

Malcom Cook, widower of the late Margaret, passed away on Thursday. RIP

Replied: 13th Aug 2023 at 13:22

Posted by: bambam (3059)

Sad news, R.I.P Malcom there is a good photo on this thread of Margaret and Malcom.

Replied: 13th Aug 2023 at 14:13

Posted by: Dagutd27 (681) 

RIP MR COOK

Replied: 13th Aug 2023 at 22:50

Posted by: bambam (3059)

Are you still grafting Malc.

Replied: 13th Aug 2023 at 23:18

Posted by: Dagutd27 (681) 

Morning David hi sunbelt top of landgate hoists div are still working pal how's Mrs Lewis doing

Replied: 14th Aug 2023 at 09:18

Posted by: bambam (3059)

Mother doing fine thanks, my sister is over from states her and mother just gone Scotland for 7 days.

Replied: 14th Aug 2023 at 09:47

Posted by: whups (13367) 

sad to hear that carl duffy of rectory nurseries has passed away last night .

Replied: 14th Aug 2023 at 12:39

Posted by: bambam (3059)

I'm so shocked at the news Bri, I grew up with the family and feel very saddened, I really feel for his father Kevin who has issues of his own at the moment, may god bless them all R.I.P Carl.

Replied: 14th Aug 2023 at 12:55

Posted by: whups (13367) 

let you know any details when i hear of any dav .

Replied: 14th Aug 2023 at 15:54

Posted by: Dagutd27 (681) 

That's a shock that can't believe it RIP Carl sad loss god bless

Replied: 14th Aug 2023 at 16:58

Posted by: suesa (645)

What an absolute shock this is. My thoughts and prayers are with Kevin and all the family.

Replied: 14th Aug 2023 at 17:02

Posted by: bambam (3059)

Thanks Bri.

Replied: 14th Aug 2023 at 18:45

Posted by: whups (13367) 

no probs dav .

Replied: 14th Aug 2023 at 19:45

Posted by: Dagutd27 (681) 

Very good David ???? nice Scotland Edinburgh best city

Replied: 14th Aug 2023 at 22:31

Posted by: bambam (3059)

They said weather is good at the moment, if it stays clear they will enjoy the scenery.

Replied: 14th Aug 2023 at 23:32

Posted by: Dagutd27 (681) 

Morning all did road in front of where Betty Lowe live a name can anyone remember

Replied: 15th Aug 2023 at 08:09

Posted by: bambam (3059)

Never known that road to have a name Malc, the houses there have rectory Rd address, don't even know why they removed it and grassed it over, large vehicles struggle to turn left now at the junction.

Replied: 15th Aug 2023 at 11:14

Posted by: Dagutd27 (681) 

I know shame they took it away I can't remember if it had a name or not David

Replied: 15th Aug 2023 at 16:08

Posted by: bambam (3059)

I don't know if it had a street name Malc but it was there when they built the houses, probably used for access to the properties and deliveries to Co op and butchers.

Replied: 15th Aug 2023 at 17:00

Posted by: Dagutd27 (681) 

Perhaps unadopted Rd Dave and that's why it was rough yey wots think

Replied: 16th Aug 2023 at 12:18

Posted by: bambam (3059)

People who lived in cottages never liked the road they wanted more privacy, so probably them that got it removed, but I've seen kids playing ball games on there now.

Replied: 16th Aug 2023 at 21:24

Posted by: Dagutd27 (681) 

Morning Men it's dog shite triangle now

Replied: 17th Aug 2023 at 06:34

Posted by: bentlegs (5327)

Graham and Betty Lowe lived in the cottages Betty was a councilor so maybe she got it done away with, she wanted the area called Senley green and did it,

Replied: 17th Aug 2023 at 19:51

Posted by: bambam (3059)

Thanks Bentlegs, when they removed the road Betty Lowe had long vacated, don't even know where she moved to.

Replied: 17th Aug 2023 at 20:37

Posted by: whups (13367) 

david austin & his family & mother lived in 1 of those cottages dav . before they moved to palm ave .

Replied: 17th Aug 2023 at 23:40

Posted by: bambam (3059)

Thanks Bri, I remember them living there the grandmother lived in rectory road facing Tommy Evans shop.

Replied: 18th Aug 2023 at 00:43

Posted by: bentlegs (5327)

I think and only think that Betty Lowe moved to Billinge ,not sure,

Replied: 18th Aug 2023 at 18:50

Posted by: whups (13367) 

yes she did bentlegs .

Replied: 18th Aug 2023 at 23:45

Posted by: bambam (3059)

I remember them well Bri, as a lad I delivered newspapers and milk to them, access was through millingford's gate and turn right that was same route for postman.

Replied: 19th Aug 2023 at 13:49

Posted by: whups (13367) 

jack,s funeral tomorrow dav .

Replied: 24th Aug 2023 at 12:11

Posted by: bambam (3059)

Yes Bri, going be sad day for family hope all goes to plan.

Replied: 24th Aug 2023 at 14:58

Posted by: whups (13367) 

well done & dusted dav . no idea how it went as they never kept family informed ? .

Replied: 25th Aug 2023 at 15:19

Posted by: bambam (3059)

I would have thought someone would have been in touch Bri.

Replied: 25th Aug 2023 at 21:04

Posted by: whups (13367) 

me to dav but no info . the word on carl is that in maybe pneumonia .

Replied: 25th Aug 2023 at 23:47

Posted by: PeterP (11397)

Unfortunately people grieve in their own way and maybe do not want relations (except immediate family) present at a funeral. There are more and more cremations where there is no ceremony or there is a service for up to a dozen people to be present just to pay their respects with or without a priest/vicar/celebrant in attendance. I don't think this reflects badly on any relatives in any way it is the wish of the close family. If and when My wife passes away she has told me she wants a simple ceremony at Holy Trinity(her family church) and to be interned there and does not want any one outside the family to knowAt this time it is a strange request but if that is what she wants I will at this time not go against it.

Replied: 26th Aug 2023 at 07:02

Posted by: bambam (3059)

Such a shame that Bri as pneumonia is treatable, maybe it would have been better go to hospital get checked out, but having said that how many times have we gone to bed not feeling well and thinking an early night is the cure, as for cremations now peterp not many people can afford a church service with all flowers and cars and everything else, but a quiet do at cream for £1600.

Replied: 26th Aug 2023 at 10:22

Posted by: Dagutd27 (681) 

I it costs nothing come into world and a bloody fortune go out RIP TO TWO FINE LADS GOD BLESS

Replied: 26th Aug 2023 at 20:52

Posted by: whups (13367) 

we all do it dav & put things off until it,s to late .

Replied: 27th Aug 2023 at 11:58

Posted by: Dagutd27 (681) 

Morning David it was nice catching up with you yesterday pal for an owd natter take care

Replied: 28th Aug 2023 at 08:43

Posted by: bambam (3059)

Yes I enjoyed it Malc, nice to see your family again, hope girls enjoyed themselves.

Replied: 28th Aug 2023 at 09:38

Posted by: bentlegs (5327)

Unless you areas old as I am 87, then you wouldn't,t know about what was called the Stuff Rooks situated behind the Dolly tub row at Simms Rd, it was a pile of pit dirt from I think a pit called Mackies locally,it was moved sometime in the 1940s or 50s, we spent many hours playing on those dirt rooks, I don't know where the pit was situated but it must have been very near,

Replied: 28th Aug 2023 at 10:14

Posted by: whups (13367) 

bentlegs i know the "stuffy" quite well & played on there many times with my cousins james & steven frodsham . they lived facing the stuffy & still had outside toilets back then .

Replied: 28th Aug 2023 at 11:30

Posted by: bambam (3059)

Never heard of that guys, thanks for history.

Replied: 28th Aug 2023 at 12:14

Posted by: whups (13367) 

yes dav it was a slag heap behind my uncle norman & aunty dolly,s back door .

Replied: 28th Aug 2023 at 12:44

Posted by: bambam (3059)

Back to normal now Malc, told you it wouldn't be long.

Replied: 9th Sep 2023 at 15:56

Posted by: whups (13367) 

Replied: 10th Sep 2023 at 16:08

Posted by: Dagutd27 (681) 

Hi that's good David when was s and s closed anyone

Replied: 14th Sep 2023 at 18:12

Posted by: whups (13367) 

around 1982ish .

Replied: 14th Sep 2023 at 23:42

Posted by: bambam (3059)

Not to sure Malc, I'd say early 80s.

Replied: 14th Sep 2023 at 23:42

Posted by: bentlegs (5327)

Anyone remember the Tile sheds in Garswood, it was at the side of the railway at tbottom of Garswood, we used to swim ,fish and play around in the pit that the extraction of clay left , had some happy days playing about ,

Replied: 22nd Sep 2023 at 11:22

Posted by: whups (13367) 

yes bentlegs i vaguely remember it near the bridge .

Replied: 22nd Sep 2023 at 12:15

Posted by: Gustavus (158)

Hello, from a fellow ‘Downall Greener!’ I used to live here many years ago. In fact I used to have a small Hill named after me. In fact when I ‘left’ Gustavus Hillock, as it became known to the not so many locals, they decided to place a church on top of it, due to my name meaning ‘gods staff’. It’s great to see the old church still standing proud albeit it has changed since I ‘left’. It would be nice to see a plaque or similar on the church wall saying Gustavus Hillock. The name Gustavus Hillock is still recognised on that ‘google’ thing. It would be good for the locals to always remember. Regards to you all. Gustavus. (My father was Latvian)

Replied: 29th Sep 2023 at 20:40

Posted by: tonker (28058) 

Gustavus Hillock?
Famous place, Say no more!

Replied: 29th Sep 2023 at 23:17
Last edited by tonker: 29th Sep 2023 at 23:18:49

Posted by: Gustavus (158)

Indeed. Do you know why the ‘Blue Bell’ is named as such?

Replied: 1st Oct 2023 at 07:19

Posted by: whups (13367) 

yes it,s because behind it there,s bluebells in the school fields & the woods .

Replied: 1st Oct 2023 at 11:35

Posted by: Gustavus (158)

Sorry, no, it’s because there is a church in close proximity. You’ll find if there is a ‘Blue Bell’ there will be a church close by. Many a ‘Blue Bell’ will be on a Church Road.

Replied: 1st Oct 2023 at 13:45

Posted by: whups (13367) 

wrong gus because i still live there & went to the school & i can verify that the school playing fields & the wood were festooned with bluebells . this subject has come up before & it isnt the suggestion your making .

Replied: 1st Oct 2023 at 23:55

Posted by: tonker (28058) 

And ...... the church bell isn't blue, it's rust colour!

Replied: 2nd Oct 2023 at 09:37

Posted by: bentlegs (5327)

It ain't Tonks it,s a record or tape

Replied: 2nd Oct 2023 at 10:46

Posted by: bambam (3059)

Does anyone know how many bells are actually in the church tower, I know there was 1 before the church had a new tower in 1938 paid for by the Crompton family.

Replied: 2nd Oct 2023 at 13:33

Posted by: whups (13367) 

none dav .

Replied: 2nd Oct 2023 at 15:07

Posted by: bambam (3059)

Went up tower Bri when attending rectory school but can't remember if there was any bells.

Replied: 2nd Oct 2023 at 15:46

Posted by: tonker (28058) 

They should change the pub name to 'The Blue Record Player' then !

Replied: 2nd Oct 2023 at 19:22

Posted by: Gustavus (158)

https://www.thehistorypress.co.uk/articles/a-history-of-british-pub-names/

(The last sentence in Tudor Times section)

Replied: 2nd Oct 2023 at 19:43

Posted by: Gustavus (158)

…Oh, the bell would have been made of gunmetal…which can be a shade of blue!

Replied: 2nd Oct 2023 at 20:10

Posted by: bambam (3059)

If there is no bells in church now, I would have thought someone maybe kept or know where original bell actually is.

Replied: 3rd Oct 2023 at 00:07

Posted by: bambam (3059)

Gustavus I understand what you are saying, but for years i myself thought it was named after the surrounding area which had two large wooded areas covered in bluebell flowers, I know there are many pubs called the bluebell in North west with no flowers In sight, so it makes it very interesting.

Replied: 3rd Oct 2023 at 00:34

Posted by: Gustavus (158)

With regards, you can go back and take a look at the pub sign on any age of old photos and you will see it ALWAYS depicts a Bell. NEVER Bluebells as in the flower. Ask yourself why is this, if the pub was named after the flowers?
Yes, you and obviously others have grown up believing it was the flowers. You or anyone else has no evidence of this. Only presuming and hearsay. Downall Greeners must come across as a bit stupid to paint a Blue Bell on EVERY pub sign ever made over the years if it is actually named after the Bluebell flower. As I said history has it that there is a church or once been a church close by all Blue Bell pubs. Denoting a ‘Gunmetal Blue’ Bell that would be in the nearby church. Pubs named ‘The Bell’ I guess would have a bell made of something else other than Gunmetal. If the bell isn’t in the church now, it would have been originally. Could have got damaged and removed over time. Not impossible for a very old bell. As for the flowers, it seemed a logical thought because there was s lot of them around. But illogical to then paint a ‘Blue Bell’ on every pub sign ever painted. Ding Dong.

Replied: 3rd Oct 2023 at 02:13

Posted by: gaffer (7982) 

Replied: 3rd Oct 2023 at 11:06

Posted by: whups (13367) 

wrong gus it was once had a sign of a bluebell flower . tell me gus how many times have you been in the bell & when was the last time in there or even on the estate ?.

Replied: 3rd Oct 2023 at 11:41
Last edited by whups: 3rd Oct 2023 at 11:43:23

Posted by: Gustavus (158)

IF it once had a picture of a bluebell (flower) during its many changes, then why did that then revert back to a Blue Bell? Most probably someone had informed them that ‘Bluebells’ as in the flower was wrong!. Why did the sign not continue along its way with the flower?. You’ve only got hearsay and by presuming it was named after the flowers. Whereas the ‘Blue Bell’ pubs and nearby church is referenced to quite a few times in literature. Also other pubs named the Blue Bell as I know of, do indeed have a church close by. These are all facts and not imagination.
Once a Blue Bell regular, not any more. I was born/bred on the estate. A true Downall Greener, if born/bred classifies as one. Was in the Blue Bell after a funeral not too long ago. Regards.

Replied: 3rd Oct 2023 at 17:31

Posted by: bambam (3059)

Bluebell is not what it once was, hardly anyone goes in these days that's why it only opens at teatime, I can only ever remember the bell sign outside I must have been to young to witness the flower sign whups is talking about, I tried look it up but been unsuccessful as yet.

Replied: 3rd Oct 2023 at 20:30

Posted by: whups (13367) 

who,s funeral ? .

Replied: 3rd Oct 2023 at 23:44

Posted by: whups (13367) 

because the brewery wanted it that way .

Replied: 3rd Oct 2023 at 23:45

Posted by: bambam (3059)

Just read that 19 churches across Wigan may soon be closing down, apparently it costs to much to run and maintain, Holy Trinity is included.

Replied: 4th Oct 2023 at 16:55

Posted by: Dagutd27 (681) 

Morning David hi I've been told same nobody using them shopping religion to David

Replied: 5th Oct 2023 at 10:13

Posted by: bentlegs (5327)

Did you know there was a pub called The The Lord Nelson in Garswood but a long time ago It stood on the junction of Station Rd and Garswood Rd.

Replied: 5th Oct 2023 at 10:31

Posted by: bambam (3059)

It's a crazy world now malc, all old buildings will just crumble away if not looked after.

Replied: 5th Oct 2023 at 13:40

Posted by: bambam (3059)

I didn't know that Bentlegs, very interesting I would love to see a pic of that pub.

Replied: 5th Oct 2023 at 13:42

Posted by: whups (13367) 

the only one i ever knew was the stag . was it renamed ? .

Replied: 5th Oct 2023 at 14:52

Posted by: bambam (3059)

I looked at a map of 1925 only pub I can see there is stag Inn.

Replied: 5th Oct 2023 at 17:11

Posted by: tonker (28058) 

There was two pubs there, Lord Nelson and Colliers Arms. It was in the early 1800's though, before Station Road and Garswood Road existed. In fact, they might have been before Garswood existed.

Mid 1800's, Station Road was Strange Lane and Garswood was Seneley Green.





Replied: 5th Oct 2023 at 18:14
Last edited by tonker: 5th Oct 2023 at 21:10:40

Posted by: whups (13367) 

so it,s garswood that,s called senley green & not downall green then tonker .

Replied: 5th Oct 2023 at 23:49

Posted by: PeterP (11397)

Whups if you look on a modern map via St Helens Council Seneley Green PC starts at Carr mill and borders part of Billinge then covers Simms lane end Garswood and Downall Green all the way up to the brook along side LG road

Replied: 6th Oct 2023 at 07:13

Posted by: Dagutd27 (681) 

Morning all it looks like it's where Ernie s farm is then perhaps Richard Turpin called in theer

Replied: 6th Oct 2023 at 07:23

Posted by: tonker (28058) 

Aye., but Dick only stayed there once and never got any sleep because of Ernie's snoring, so he never came back!

Replied: 6th Oct 2023 at 09:42

Posted by: whups (13367) 

at least dick turpin wore a mask unlike these torys .

Replied: 6th Oct 2023 at 14:51

Posted by: Gustavus (158)

https://www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/news/5273153.dick-turpin-myth-shot-down/

Replied: 8th Oct 2023 at 01:37

Posted by: bentlegs (5327)

I seem to recall a few years back that there was a bunch of blue bells on each side of the bell, not certain but something tells me there was,

Replied: 8th Oct 2023 at 20:10

Posted by: bambam (3059)

I have looked up and read about the name bluebell pub, what gustavus said does make sense I know years ago there was no sign outside the pub apart from the one saying lion ales, but years later the sign of a bell was erected, maybe that's when lion brewery sold it on to I think was Scottish & Newcastle.

Replied: 8th Oct 2023 at 20:37

Posted by: tonker (28058) 

If they'd sold it to Greenhalls it would've closed long ago!

Replied: 8th Oct 2023 at 22:07

Posted by: bambam (3059)

That's true, greenall whitley land as the advert went, they had St Helens and a Wales brewery I think.

Replied: 8th Oct 2023 at 22:41

Posted by: whups (13367) 

ever remember grunhalle larger in greenall pubs dav & festival ale .

Replied: 14th Oct 2023 at 00:52

Posted by: PeterP (11397)

I remember there being a fall out in the pubs because the lager glasses held a dead pint and the craze was to have a pint of lager and lime. This was OK till the bar staff started charging for the lime so you were paying for a pint of lager plus lime but were getting a short measure with the lager. One or two bar staff were threatened with trading standards/weights and measures. People got round this by ordering lime in a separate glass then having a sip of the lager and putting the lime into the glass. The bar staff were not happy because it created more washing up

Replied: 14th Oct 2023 at 07:14

Posted by: bambam (3059)

I remember drinking grunhalle lager Bri, I think it was in oddfellows the village club and bluebell was slalom as was simms Rd, not to sure about S&S I think it was cars berg.

Replied: 14th Oct 2023 at 09:55

Posted by: bambam (3059)

Oh yes I'd forgotten about the lime in lager Peter, you're right about the short measures I remember the squabbles at the time, must admit I liked a pint of lager & lime when I was younger.

Replied: 14th Oct 2023 at 09:59

Posted by: bentlegs (5327)

2 4 is a nice number Dave

Replied: 14th Oct 2023 at 20:24

Posted by: whups (13367) 

grunhalle is german for greenall dav . that festival all in the oddies was to heavy for me just like newcy brown .

Replied: 15th Oct 2023 at 00:02

Posted by: Dagutd27 (681) 

Harp stay sharp to bottom of the glass owd Bill Davies use say there's no bad ale some better than others morning everyone

Replied: 15th Oct 2023 at 07:55

Posted by: bambam (3059)

He should know Malc he supped enough.

Replied: 15th Oct 2023 at 09:24

Posted by: bambam (3059)

Was never keen on Harp lager, I found it tasted tangy.

Replied: 15th Oct 2023 at 14:00

Posted by: Dagutd27 (681) 

All them owd miners did Brian in Bell anyroad what I con remember

Replied: 15th Oct 2023 at 16:56

Posted by: tonker (28058) 

BamBam, Greenall’s was a St.Helens brewery, and they had a lot of Wigan houses.
The reason I said the Bell would’ve shut if Greenall’s had bought it is that Greenall’s ale was vile!
You could always tell a Greenall’s house, by the smell, and St.Helens used to smell like that before the brewery shut in 1975 !

Replied: 15th Oct 2023 at 22:19
Last edited by tonker: 15th Oct 2023 at 22:25:43

Posted by: bambam (3059)

You're right there tonker greenall ale was pot, as was Burtonwood if it wasn't kept right, my favourite tipple when I worked in wigan as a youngster was Tetley walker bitter, new star Inn wallgate was a brilliant pint, I spent most Saturday afternoons in there as well.

Replied: 15th Oct 2023 at 23:29

Posted by: whups (13367) 

i used to have to pass that brewery every day when i went to the mining tech . i will say tho tonker that the eagle & child at billinge was a very good pint of bitter .

Replied: 15th Oct 2023 at 23:54

Posted by: bambam (3059)

I once attended that place Bri to a suprise birthday party In 90s when Andy platt ran it, must admit nobody complained about the beer, having said that you wouldn't have told him would you.

Replied: 16th Oct 2023 at 00:08

Posted by: PeterP (11397)

A lot of Greenall's pub ended up has Boddingtons pubs but the ale never improved. Some landlords/ladies could keep a good pint but far and few between What amazed me was The Oddfellows The Britannia Bryn Labour Club and the Star where all Greenall's pubs/club and were serviced by the same dray wagon but charged different prices for their ale. The Oddfellows even charged a different price depending which side of the pub you used

Replied: 16th Oct 2023 at 06:34

Posted by: Gustavus (158)

I loved the Slalom Lager. It’s the best Lager I’ve ever had out of a bottle n,all….
When do you reckon Bell hit its peak and then start to decline? I tend to think it went downhill after they opened it all up and took away the games room. But then again I’ve seen the pub quite packed many a time when it was opened up and there’s be a Wigan v Saints game on. Or a United game on. Dya think it was down to em letting kids in and letting em run wild. I don’t know! Only for the pub football team being based there it would probably have declined much sooner.

Replied: 16th Oct 2023 at 07:20

Posted by: PeterP (11397)

I frequented the bell from 1972-75. When I got married at Holy Trinity due to logistics I was very early for the church even thou I lived on LG road. I went into the bell and even thou Arthur knew I was getting married he never offered me a drink

Replied: 16th Oct 2023 at 07:39

Posted by: whups (13367) 

the reason for the different prices is because of the free trade like bryn labour club would get it,s ale far cheaper than pubs just like the simms rd ,blue bell & hingemakers had to pay double wot the village club paid even tho they were all supplied by the same brewery .

Replied: 16th Oct 2023 at 12:56

Posted by: bambam (3059)

The only way to make money these days is to have a free house then you can negotiate the barrel price, in my opinion all day opening ruined the pubs as they turned to food allowing children in, most men go pub for a quiet pint and chat they don't want uncontrolled kids running around everywhere, there is a pub in wigan town centre who don't allow kids in and it's very busy day and night with people who appreciate a quiet pint, there was a pub in king st west when all day boozing started that actually had a pram park, I know most of drinkers would give it a wide birth, I certainly would.

Replied: 16th Oct 2023 at 14:57

Posted by: PeterP (11397)

Bambam nearly time for DG24 to help Bentlegs

Replied: 16th Oct 2023 at 17:18

Posted by: bambam (3059)

I know Peter, I'm working from tablet at minute but it will be sorted.

Replied: 16th Oct 2023 at 22:06

Posted by: whups (13367) 

not many free houses in the ashton area .

Replied: 16th Oct 2023 at 23:46

Posted by: bambam (3059)

Is it still a cheap afternoon out in Ashton Bri.

Replied: 17th Oct 2023 at 08:44

Posted by: whups (13367) 

yes dav but these small bars that,s opened in ashton & there,s quite a lot of them charge an astronomical price for a pint .

Replied: 17th Oct 2023 at 11:13

Posted by: bambam (3059)

They do overcharge Bri, there's a few in Standish now I went on a retirement party and they was all £5 a pint.

Replied: 17th Oct 2023 at 11:19

Posted by: whups (13367) 

it,s the same in ashton dav the german bar that,s opened near our bus stop in gerard st is a £5 a pint in there .

Replied: 17th Oct 2023 at 11:37

Posted by: bambam (3059)

I don't go out now Bri, occasionally I get a few bottles from tesco it works out at £1.49 a pint and its strong ale.

Replied: 17th Oct 2023 at 13:45

Posted by: tonker (28058) 

I wouldn't drink Greenalls bitter if it was free!

Replied: 17th Oct 2023 at 16:48

Posted by: bambam (3059)

I wouldn't tonker, there are a lot of good beers now in supermarkets and quite reasonable.

Replied: 17th Oct 2023 at 17:31

Posted by: sammys (276) 

You can't take it with you lads get out there enjoy yourself

Replied: 17th Oct 2023 at 22:00

Posted by: whups (13367) 

Replied: 18th Oct 2023 at 10:59

Posted by: tonker (28058) 

I used to like that "Caines's" !

I've had a really nice bitter in a pub in Limoges, France, called O'Brians Tavern, , well, it's not just like bitter, but it's proper good , strong too!, and it's called "Murphy's Irish Red". Beltin' !



A pint of Murphy's Irish Red, this morning!

Replied: 18th Oct 2023 at 21:19
Last edited by tonker: 18th Oct 2023 at 21:25:03

Posted by: Gustavus (158)

I’ve always been a Lager drinker over the years, but have recently become accustomed to Guinness. A lovely drink if you get it from the right places
With pubs/beer as the topic, it got me thinking. I feel quite lucky to have lived in the years that I have. Great memories and times with fellow Downall Greeners over them years. We all mostly knew everyone on the estate. Knew where they all lived. Mixed with nearly all of them. Fantastic times, club trips, Christmas treats from the club as a kid, walking day/ jelly Sunday, pram race, boozing and chatting, in The Bell, Village Club and S and S, on a mini Downall Green pub crawl.
Now, imagine how it’s going to be in the future, and it’s started already. Both Clubs gone! Walking Day gone! No trips or Christmas treats for the kids. All the shops closed and gone, that we used to shop and chat in! One drinking hole left that is balancing on a cliff edge!…Talk of Church closing!
Where will people get to know each other? It’ll be that you’ll only know your immediate neighbours! All living life indoors! All strangers in the same village!
All the great things we had all wiped away! So so sad!
They’ll only get to know anyone who lives in their mobile phone, where everyone spends their lives every day!
So happy I lived through the great Downall Green times!

Replied: 18th Oct 2023 at 22:34

Posted by: bambam (3059)

Gustavus what years were you on the estate, I may remember you or your mates and famalies.

Replied: 18th Oct 2023 at 23:58

Posted by: whups (13367) 

that,s exactly how it is now . very few people know anyone apart from those who are in a clique . i can still name everyone who was in birch grove when i was a kid .

Replied: 19th Oct 2023 at 01:11

Posted by: whups (13367) 

he wont tell you dav .

Replied: 19th Oct 2023 at 14:57

Posted by: bambam (3059)

Can't see why gus won't confide in us I was proud to have grown up on the estate as he probably was, but he's right so much has changed I like yourself knew where everyone lived and the place was very friendly, but since old greeners have passed people have moved there from all over surrounding districts, I'm so glad I can still reminisce and remember the wonderful people and famalies I grew up with.

Replied: 19th Oct 2023 at 22:16

Posted by: whups (13367) 

i dont know why dav but i think he wont .

Replied: 19th Oct 2023 at 23:47

Posted by: bambam (3059)

Replied: 21st Oct 2023 at 12:01

Posted by: bambam (3059)

Thanks guys for all your input, please go to thread 24.

Replied: 21st Oct 2023 at 12:05

 

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