Liz Truss (Tory)

Whupsy!

Liz Truss, the next Prime Minister, I was watching her on Radio 4 this morning, on the news, and she was going on about cutting taxes, and Nick Robinson was basically saying that she was talking a load of rubbish.

But she reminded me very much of Margaret Thatcher

LINK

Nick struggled to get a word in edgeways!

TTS: What sort of radio have you got? Were you just staring at it and imagining the images coming through?

Posted by: ena malcup (1309) View ena malcup's page
Nick struggled to get a word in edgeways!

so she's a typical woman, then.

If it ends up being Truss, at least it should provide some amusing entertainment until they get wiped out in the next election.

It's worth seeing Nick's face: sections of the piece are getting aired ont Beeb's 24 hr News channel. He smiles a questioning bemused countenance as she steamrollers her narrative over his question, completely ignoring it!

Bet her minders keep her away from Andrew Neil like what they did for Boris: seems he is the only journalist in our country capable of asserting himself in conversation with politicians!

she,s a lib dem 1stroke .

Platty

I did say it was on the news, and Ena has explained what it was about, but the only link I can find to the video, is on the Daily Express site LINK

Whupsy

I never understood what the LibDems are all about.

Liz Truss's parents were left wing activists, and she grew up shouting, “Maggie, Maggie, Maggie, out, out, out!” on marches with her left-wing mother LINK

TTS: Got it. You should have put an "and" between "morning" and "on" then it would have been clearer. Or better still, "listening to her on..." and, "watching her on..."
My apologies.

The real truth is that Great Britain CANNOT afford tax reductions , GB.

She's just what the government needs, some strong 'support'!

It is really amusing me, the thought of when she was young, she was giving it “Maggie, Maggie, Maggie, out, out, out!”

And then she becomes a Tory Prime Minster

the lib-dems are all about getting a little power & selling themselves down the river . just ask any students who fell for the line by nick clegg of "we wont charge tuition fees" .

I supported Hessletine: Major won!

I supported Davis: Cameron won!

Really pleased that this time, feel I cannot support either: no feeling that my support might be in vain!

no matter which of them wins it will be a disaster for the common man ,woman & child in this country.

Whupsy

Yes, probably, but how will it be any better when Kier Starmer gets the top job, what will he do different, Boris has been tax & spend, Liz is going to be tax and spend and Kier is going to be tax and spend

how do you know 1stroke . i suppose you were given a chance taxi driving wernt you .

I wonder who she will have in her cabinet, who will be her Chancellor of the Exchequer?

Like i said in the beginning who ever it is she/he will be white
And on another topic TTS i suppose that the 4 hour wait getting into France today has nothing to do with Brexit?? AND don't say it's the French not having all the booths open because when i fly into the uk it's the same here they don't have them all open here as well at passport control

Peter it is taking control of OUR borders and then blaming the French for being slow in stamping OUR passports in OUR country!
Nah can't be anything to do with brexit surely

fossil i flew into Barcelona a few weeks ago and it was a 2 and a half hour wait to get through passport control and at the EU passport control 5 minutes

it,s wot you voted for .

And another 10 billion on the brexit cost of leaving the EU, up to nearly 50 bn, so why is the government not talking about it or explaining why.
They could put the reasons on the side of a bus if they liked!

they tried that & lied . where has that money gone . probably to the tax cheats like amazon & the others .

What are you three on about at all ?

At the ports it has been the extra checks and paper work for HGV's, which has been causing the delays due to Brexit, and I have not heard anything about that for a while, so they might have been getting on top of it, today's trouble is because of the holiday rush, the busiest day of the year so far, many thousands more cars and people wanting to cross the channel today, and the bloody French don't turn up for work, leaving only half of the booths open, so what has that got to do with Brexit?

Peter Israel

The delays at Barcelona, will be down to the same problem as there is at airports all over the world, and that is replacing the staff who buggered off during air travel shutdown, caused by Covid, and they got other jobs, leaving the air travel industry short staffed.

TTS yoo have not got a Cloo!

All this nonsense blaming everything on Brexit, or Blaming it on Co-vid my ar*e ,Could i ask you all to cast your minds back to the late 1960s up to and before joining the then Common Market? There was no crap back then about filling loads of forms for this and that ,we just imported goods and exported them quite simple and easy albeit there was some forms to be done ,nothing like these jumped up toe- rags from Brussels are now insisting on ,and the honest truth about it all is this ; " THEY ARE P*SSED OFF AT US LEAVING " that is what all this is about ,same with the so-called "N.I PROTOCOL " have you ever heard such bloody nonsense in your born days ?? COS i have not in all my 75 years on this soddin earth !
IT IS JUST SHEER BLOODY MINDEDNESS BY ALL THESE UNELECTED BUREAUCRATS , what they are truly missing is the annual E.U. CONTRIBUTION we had to find every January 1st some 20 odd billion £s year on year that's the real problem . So let's not have everything being blamed on us wanting to govern ourselve's ......GB.

Golden bear there was an oven ready brexit deal negotiated by Johnson .Whatever happened,as brexit is not done,look at the situation in Northern Ireland and the protocol.And if you can point out any benefit which has improved our existence in this country,I would be most grateful.

If the Tories had spent as much time negotiating with the EU as they did trying to appease the remainers and the brexiteers in there own party we'd be in a far better position,another Tory oven ready cock up

FOSSIL ,, If you read what i put iv'e have not said that the NI has been done it has not and who's to blame for it ? Brussel's that's what i'm saying.
AS for you asking me to state what has brexit done for us yet ?All i can answer that is by saying " Rome was not built in a day " But given time this country will become better after all it gave the world a hell of a lot with the industrial revolution for one .as for other, we have been a country that has helped a lot of countries in their fight for freedom etc , i could go on ,on but i am convinced the benefit's will come. GB

Well gb the oven ready agreement was reached and agreed in law and now who wants to break the agreement
We do,not the EU and after Johnson and Frost were warned it would not work in the first place.
I voted remain but accepted brexit for what it might be,but to break international laws and to reduce the credibility and standing in the world of our country is what has happened.
Perhaps all the lies told by proven liars will haunt us in the future,we can only pray because there is no improvement in sight anywhere on the horizon.
The trade deals negotiated by ministers are being questioned as flawed and ministers from trade and the home office are not appearing before scrutiny committees!
Like I said show me any good to have appeared,but to say the benefits will hopefully come doesn’t seem likely does it.

fossil

The mistake about Northern Ireland was made in 1922 at the time of the creation of the Irish Free State negotiations when Michael Collins conceded the province to the Orange Order.

It has been a source of trouble ever since with hundreds losing their lives as a result of the mistake which led to countless acts of terrorism by both sides.

Owd Codger correct but no problems to any great extent since the good Friday agreement which may go up in smoke shortly if it is not sorted.

I have just seen an article where the French asked for permission to increase the passport booths at Dover from 5 to 10 anticipating the increase in holiday traffic and the home office refused.
Unfortunately I could not copy and paste it .

I would suggest anyone requiring an insight into the GOOD FRIDAY agreement read the late MO MOWLAMS book entitled MOMENTUM.

Fossil

There is an article about it LINK but is it true ?
The cause of the delays was because only half of the booths being open, but even if all of the booths had been open, there would have still been delays, because of the sheer volume of traffic wanting to go across the channel, it is like going shopping on Christmas Week, Asda can have every till open, but yoo are still going to queue for ages, but you would be stood in those queue at Christmas blaiming the queue on Brexit

The queues at Dover are because of Holidays, not Brexit.

Golden Bear

Agree

Owd Codger

"The mistake about Northern Ireland was made in 1922 at the time of the creation of the Irish Free State negotiations when Michael Collins conceded the province to the Orange Order"

I agree, and I have always thought that myself, but the British wanted to keep the north for selfish reasons, it was richer than the south, with a lot of British people living there, Harland & Wolf were a major ship builder, building a lot of Royal Navy ships, so Britain wanted to keep that British, but I believe they should have let the whole country go, and taken the consequences back then, a lot of the protestants might have moved to across the water to Britain, but it would have sorted itself out back then.

Tommyts,
I don't know if it is true but I just copied this
"Doug Bannister, chief executive of the Port of Dover, said the increased checks at the border that have come with Brexit are the blame for 'increased transaction times' that have caused huge tailbacks into the port over the last couple of days."
Now then, he would have first hand knowledge wouldn't he!

Fossil

He could also be passing the buck

TTS not worth a response

lets be honest 1stroke you,ll agree with anyone who says brexit isnt the cause when when it clearly is . and why shud any of the EU nations do us any favours when we slapped them in the face . did,nt the brexiteers vote to have nothing to do with the EU & yoo was 1 of those wernt you 1stroke ? . all this trouble is caused by those who voted us out of europe & all this was predicted well before the vote , you got wot you wanted so how does it feel .

That brought to mind the response: "like a rolling stone..."
but I guess really, just the opposite in fact.

Fossil & Whupsy

Well I will tell yoo how it feels, it feels like the congestion at Dover is being caused by holidaying folk, all wanting to cross the channel at the same time

I have sailed from Dover twice at peak times ,never been held up anywhere!

it,s your fault 1stroke .

TTS it sounds like you don't travel a lot to the EU... Before Brexit it would take 10mins and it has nothing to do with covid and staff its because today you have to queue with the rest of the world and not just the EU line what is still 5 min
The more i think about the people who voted for Brexit were so selfish and myopic....
Country's are begging to join the EU and the UK just walks away i have not yet seem one thing that has had a positive result for the small man in the UK .... if they has been please feel free to enlighten me TTC i would like to know how your life and anyone else's on here has changed...

Peter Israel: Is it normal for people there to build swimming pools without permission? Looks pretty dangerous to me.

Peter Israel

"fossil i flew into Barcelona a few weeks ago and it was a 2 and a half hour wait to get through passport control and at the EU passport control 5 minutes"

I wondered what you meant by that, so I take it that although you live in Israel, you are still a British Passport holder?

With something like Brexit, you are not going to see the results of it, until it is a few years down the line from it, and it did become mixed up with covid, which makes it even harder to see if Brexit will end up being good for the country, like I have said before, I am going to wait five years from Brexit, and then make me mind up as to what has been achieved by Brexit

platty Nice one !! i put a link here so who ever would like to know what your going on about Israeli man found dead after falling into sinkhole in pool

Peter Israel: Is it normal for people there to build swimming pools without permission? YES

platty remember this
Versailles Wedding Hall Disaster
or this
Collapse During Jewish Festival
as you can see Israel does not have a great record when it come it to heath and safety

That's dreadful. 2 men were being sucked down but one managed to get back. The alarming thing is that this villa was owned by a couple in their 60s and often rented it out for parties. So anyone going on a "Villa Holiday" from the UK to Israel needs to watch out.
50 people round the pool. Good job none of them dived in to save him. Are you anywhere near Karmei Yosef?
Have you got a swimming pool?

platty some people in israel rents there villa out for parties. it's anew thing
Villas for parties (117)

I haven’t really a view on the state of your borders but I do wonder why Peter Israel doesn’t receive the same “ you did a runner, so can’t have an opinion” rhetoric that I often receive. Could I be naive enough to suggest it’s because his opinions are very similar to the gent who talks about doing a runner.

Peter I read your opinions and this is not a pop at you.

Broady: Did you marry for money?

you did "do a runner" did,nt you so why are you on here as it doesnt concern you anymore , does it .

Broady: My post was tongue in cheek. As you know my son is in Calgary looking after your garden from time to time, and my other son is in San Francisco, both in medicine. You didn't "do a runner" as neither of my sons have. You and they went for a better life, and are getting it.

And there is the amazing thing! You and they went for a better life and could see the 3rd world Britain will become with the 3rd world invaders coming into this country.

Some are blind as those that don't want to see.

Platty,
It was a full two days after I married that I discovered my wife was a millionairess. So the answer is no.

broady: Ha ha. That explains your travelling line.

Platty ,they must both be millionares then!

I am going to wait five years from Brexit, and then make me mind up as to what has been achieved by Brexit

How old are you One Tug?
Your pin up boy Rees Mogg once said it could take 50 years to judge whether Brexit has been an economic success.

TTS
I wondered what you meant by that, so I take it that although you live in Israel, you are still a British Passport holder?
Yes and so does my daughter
i have to leave here on an Israeli passport by law but once out of the country i use my British... it has it's uses in the EU well it DID!!!
Israelis have to get a visa for the USA what take a long time with a British passport all i need is a ESTA.... Also in Arab country's it helps i wonder why

platty
Are you anywhere near Karmei Yosef?
Have you got a swimming pool?
I'm 20mins from Jerusalem a place called Modiin no !! pool only a small one for the dog

tts
So have you transferred your allegiance from Rishi to Liz?

Ena Malcup said:

"ts
So have you transferred your allegiance from Rishi to Liz?"

Yes

Peter Israel,
After I had been to Eilat in the late 80’s my company applied for a second passport for me as we were actively seeking work in Saudi etc. We never got any as we were usurped by the Italians and Americans. On the plus side I ended up with a new 10 year, 80 page passport.

So much like the once Lib Dem, once Thatcher hating, once remainer Liz you are a bit fairy when it comes to your beliefs.
Funnily enough good old Boris was once described as someone who waited to see which way the crowd was running then got in front and said "follow me"

well broady no need for that anymore just last week Saudi now allows Israelis to fly in to Mecca and over Saudi so it cuts the flight time over to Asia
For years some Israelis did work in Saudi and they had to cut the tags off their clothes ETC that said made in Israel when flying there..... Israel sold UAV's [drones] via a 3rd country to Saudi for years ..... don't tell anyone

Saudi-Israelia [Lisa Simpson]

Ena Malcup said:

"ts
So have you transferred your allegiance from Rishi to Liz?"

I think allegiance is too stronger a word, because I maintain my political neutrality, but this contest is important, because it is for the next Prime Minister of this country, so although I cannot take part in this election, in no time at all after it, there maybe a General Election in which we can all take part in that.

And although 'on paper' Rishi is the person for the job, in the last few days, as campaigning has got underway, I sense that he is out of touch with the people of this country, and that is probably because the vast wealth of his family, will have shielded him from the realities of living in Britain, and then there is the religious aspects to it too, is there a cultural divide between him and the majority of the British people, which means that he probably just doesn't 'get it'.

Liz Truss on paper does have some financial experience, and working backwards, she was Chief Secretary to the Treasury, and before she became an MP she worked for Shell and Cable & Wireless, as a Chartered Management Accountant, and when you take into account her background, where I don't think she came from poverty, but she has been around a bit, doing different things, and she was Oxford educated, so she is not thick, so with how she is conducting her campaign, I have 'warmed' to Liz Truss, she does seem to be 'getting it' as regards the mood of the country, and as regards the next General Election, if Liz Truss becomes Prime Minister, and because she was not one of the traitors who stabbed Boris in the back, then that means that I can approach the next General Election, on my usual level playing field, without having an underlying dislike for the leader of the Conservative Party, which I will have if Rishi wins the leadership contest

Chatty said:

"So much like the once Lib Dem, once Thatcher hating, once remainer Liz you are a bit fairy when it comes to your beliefs"

Speaking as someone who is not politically aligned, as in I won't vote for a political party for partisan reasons, such has because me dad, his dad, and his dads dad, voted for a political party, the fact that Liz Truss has experienced at first hand, the different political doctrines in this country, if I wished to find someone who knew something about politics, surely Liz Truss is going to be that sort of person, because she 'experienced' left wing politics growing up, and she entered politics has a Liberal Democrat, so I would think that she has a good idea as to how the political thing works in this country, and such knowledge maybe to hers and the countries advantage

The tory part is a eternally irritating force for wrong that appeals to bigots .
The tory party is little more than organised spivvery..

Grimshaw

Do you ever look at Labour Party policies ?

Did you look at Corbyn's plans for this country if he had gotten into power ?

Or are you just a sheep, following the rest of the Labour Party herd ?

Your a fine one to talk about herds Softcock ,given you licked your RACIST mate Farages arse
If you are saying the 2019 L P manifesto was ostensibly bullshit you are dafter than i imagined .

I suppose it was too much of me to expect to get an 'answer' from you, and instead I have just got the normal torrent of garbled abuse

how the hell can you say your neutral when you followed farrage & tried to con people on here to vote ukip ? . farrage was a extreme right wing tory & that,s wot sunak & truss is . at least be honest & dont forget that people dont forget either 1stroke .

Yoo people certainly have the 'hots' for Farage

Abuse he says .
This from someone who randomly calls others turds .
Keep taking the tabs softcock.

tts has more faces than the town clock!

The hold up at Dover has been caused by a shortage of staff as a result of people taking advantage of the higher temperatures and many more than normal deciding to go on holiday abroad.

The moment extra staff were put in to deal with the abnormal situation, the problem was eased.

And Dover is not the best of places to get in and out at the best of times as my Wife and I have experienced over the years.

Time our major ferry port was moved elsewhere away from a town.

Nothing whatsoever to do with Brexit!

Let's see what an expert in these matters thinks

you wanted hard borders you got hard borders……..if only someone had told us this would happen before we voted!!

i have found a lot of porky pies when you look into what is going on down in Dover!! What is true it depends what you read for example!!
1The UK cabinet office snubbed a £33 million proposal to double the capacity for French government passport checks at Dover???? true or not

AND why are the French on the UK soil??? Its because of in response to migrant camps Traité du Touquet in French)
So when you look into the problem it all come down to the UK GOV .....
I'm starting to think that the pandemic was a blessing for the Tories.... when it comes to Brexit.....

Ok I'll have it then, Brexit is causing delays.

But lets, for argument’s sake, say that we were still in the EU and folk who normally go on to the continent for holidays, have not been able to cross the channel for the last two years, in 2020 and 2021 because of Covid restrictions, so the last time, summer time holidaying folk were able to travel freely across the channel, was in summer 2019, so they have not been on holiday on to the continent for three years, so there is your sky high demand for folk wanting to get away on to the continent here in 2022.

So the clever chap said that processing cars through Dover was taking three times as long as before Brexit, so if you were waiting an hour to get through Border Control before Brexit, then that should have gone up to three hours now, but folk have been waiting up to 21 hours to get through Border Control, so what is that all that about then ?

In the year 2000 ferries stopped crossing to France from Folkstone.

In 2013 ferries stopped crossing to France from Ramsgate.

So that leaves only Dover, and as the clever chap on the telly said, and Owd Codger, it is not just the Port of Dover which is causing the delays, it is the lack of decent roads into Dover, which is also causing the problems, because the traffic cannot get through to the port, if Folkstone and Ramsgate had still been operating ferries, and then by laying on extra ferries from those two ports, then that would have eased the pressure on Dover.

But, at the end of the day, and it is as clear as the nose on your face, unless yoo are Fossil & Grimshaw, who lets face it, Mr Magoo, can see things more clearly than those two myopic numptys

The reason for the delays, is because thousands of extra people and vehicles descended on Dover, wanting to cross the channel, and if we were still in the EU there would still have been problems at Dover.

It is looking very much like the Port of Ramsgate is going to reopen as a ferry terminal, to ease the pressure on Dover.

You have answered your own Q there TTS.

1 hour before, 3 hours after. BUT there are far more waiting to get through.

The sheer volume of the numbers involved, and they should use a booking system to stagger the journeys over a few days, instead of folk all turning up at the same time, they should work out the maximum the port can safely handle, and work backwards from that, the airports should have done that as soon as the covid restrictions were ended, only handle what they are capable of handling, but it comes down to greed, the airlines were selling tickets for flights, which they knew they couldn't provide.

And as regards Brexit, is a holiday rush, and extra checks at the airport, a valid reason to stay in the EU

TTS i thought that one reason you have a government is to see problems coming down the track and act on them before it becomes a disaster.....
Why does it feel like the last 12 years it's been catch up on what ever it is School ,PPE , hospital and now it's borders when will it end ???

brexit is an article of faith to some ukippers, tories and Leavers.
This will end up being their downfall in not accepting the political and financial hardships of brexit.
And tts resorting to insults again is about your level as I may be a little short sighted but I am certainly not blinkered!

Peter Israel

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but Labour or Tory, they cannot foretell the future, they can only do their best, even if they put in extra infrastructure at Dover, then the roads in Dover are still going to be an issue, and is it worth doing that just for the few days a year, for the holiday rush ?

That is why they want to reopen the Port of Ramsgate, which is a much better idea, but will it be economically viable for the shipping companies ?

it,s yoo who has a mr magoo atitude to brexit . you must accept that it,s the vote that took us out of the EU & not the fault of the french as they dont owe us any favours . you got wot you wanted so how does it feel 1stroke.

Whupsy

I will tell yoo how I feel after we are five years down the line from Brexit

TTS How about a bit of foresight
Come on TTS what about the transport companies they have been complaining for months!!! ... And you don't just lose 50000 nurses over night Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera... it's always easy to blame some one else

We all know the truth the Tories would rather give a tax break to there mates then but the money into services and then hope all go's well

Peter Israel

Fair enough, so don't vote Tory at the next General Election

I see that union membership has risen by 400.00 in the last 4 years .
Just saying like .

400 eh!

Jeeze were all doomed

That is because of Brexit, its what yoo voted for

And.
Further brexit bollocks .
Blue badge holders are facing difficulty in europe .
A government spokesman said " the situation is unresolved "
Y C M I U.

Not one advantage to brexit and I have honestly looked for one!
I was one who was lucky to be able to spend the winters abroad for the last few years, now not possible under the conditions imposed at brexit,and now for disabled to be targeted is not on, but not surprised at anything that turns up,week after week,chaotic situations one after another and Johnson said it was oven ready for the country.
Glad to see the back of him but the prospects of Sunak or Truss is not very inspiring.
I am surprised that the Conservative party can’t come up with a candidate that can be trusted after nominating two from Johnson’s flawed brigade.

Are you seriously thinking that Keir Hardie & Emmeline Pankhurst, can govern any better than the Tories.

Schengen

That’s the problem gaffer ,Schengen!
But I see that the EHIC card is honoured for emergency health treatment as before,so that is good but no different to before brexit.

^^^^ that doc implies that it is compulsory for UK nationals to have travel insurance for visiting EU countries.

When did that come into being?

In 2014 the tories promised to build 200.000 starter homes .
Five years after that ,guess how many were built .?
Answers on a post card to the thatcher tribute act in westminster .

There is just one question i would like to ask everyone on this site and it's ,,,
" WHAT'S WRONG WITH WANTING TO GOVERN AND RULE OUR OWN COUNTRY"" ????????????????G.B.

Golden Bear

A question in return…….how does being in Europe STOP us governing and ruling the UK ??

S D .

Ena the EHIC formerly E111 has always guaranteed emergency hospital treatment,and any ongoing treatment is chargeable and bills are sent out to the individuals to pay.
Insurance takes over then or at source with the agreement of the insurance company.
It cost a friend of mine a lot of money as his treatment was not covered by his insurance ,mainly covering loss of luggage etc!

Stardelta,correct!!

I see the poundshop thatcher has described the Eire P M as TEA SOCK .
y c m i u..

A question in return…….how does being in Europe STOP us governing and ruling the UK ??
The EU laws could override our laws, thats how, and Brexit has never been given a fair chance, due to Covid and the crazy bloke in Russia.

Domino

Stardelta might be throwing in a 'trick question' in there

I agree 100% with what you say.

And which EU laws are those?

AND…..how will they effect you as an idividual?

Can the EU overrule UK law?
This principle of the 'primacy' of EU law means that any conflicting national law in areas covered by the EU treaties cannot be enforced. However, the Court of Justice does not have any power to strike down national law – this is a task for national courts.

"28 members, one legal system…

EU law, or European Union law, is a system of law that is specific to the 28 members of the European Union. This system overrules the national law of each member country if there is a conflict between the national law and the EU law"

www.allaboutlaw.co.uk/areas-of-law/eu-law

Nuff said

So why does it worry you?

What can we as individuals legally do now that we couldn’t do while in Europe?

Yoo are in an argumentative mood today, mind you so am I, it must be the humidity

The answer to your question is 'nothing' because we still have the EU laws and regulations in force in this country, because they were automatically carried over from EU law, and into UK law, when we left the EU

We can pay roaming charges for using our mobiles abroad.
(depending luck or no the Company you use)

and we can increasingly have cookies harvest our data with not the option to refuse

and we can get kicked out of neighbouring countries for overstaying

Liars

The Thatcher clone said recently we are in the worst economic crisis for a decade .
Reports say if she becomes P M sterling will drop dramatically .
Just saying like .

"WHAT'S WRONG WITH WANTING TO GOVERN AND RULE OUR OWN COUNTRY" ???????????????? G.B - what does that even mean??
YOU would never get to govern or rule!!!

But what YOU did have yes YOU GB YOU had the choice to live/work where ever YOU wanted to AND by pulling up the draw bridge you have stopped the advantages you had coming in from a prosperous country into the EU.

I will give you an example - A friend of mine's father was laid off from the pits when he was in his early 40s. With his redundancy he bought 2 houses in Ashton. Then he sold his own house and with the income he has today from rent of 2 and sale of 1 he lives a very comfortable life in Spain and has been there since his early 50s. He couldn't come back to live in the UK and live in the same standards today

I am just watching this debate between Liz and Rishi, and what strikes me is that the moderator, Sophie Raworth, her hair is an absolute mess, I don't want to be a bitch about it, but she looks bloody well

Her hair has 'Frizzed Up' its all over the place, a bad hair day, it is the colour of straw, and it looks like it is made out of straw, a straw wig

In the 1970s in those Silvikrin Shampoo adverts, they would have said that Sophie Raworth, had 'fly away hair'

Rshy hasn't got a hair out of place

Neither as Liz, she looks very smart

Did Maggie not have a dress like the one she has on

Peter Israel

I think she did, but Liz Truss looks better in it

If either of them become leader of the Tories and Prime Minster, it will be no better than when Boris was in charge.

And it will be no better if the other lot led by the "dynamic" Starmer were to get into power.

What a sorry mess, the two main political parties of today have become!

Last night I noticed that after the opening few minutes, they never showed another close up shot of Sophie Raworth, so it must have come down from on high in the BBC, to the program producer, to stop showing folk what a mess her hair was in.

TTS.She did look a mess,I think these people do it to be noticed.

TTS the teasy weasy of Wigan world now!
Whatever next

which ever of them 2 gets in the whole country will be in a bigger mess than it already is .

Whupsy

Yoo might be right

Overall things are looking worse in the EU.

From the Financial Times.


Germany’s political and business leaders warned that the country was facing its biggest economic crisis for decades as soaring energy prices and disruptions to trade pushed the country into a monthly trade deficit in goods for the first time in more than 30 years.
The rise in energy prices increased the cost of imports to Europe’s largest economy in May, while global trade disruption weighed down exports, causing a $1bn deficit — the first since 1991. The figures contrasted with years in which Germany’s manufacturing exports drove the country’s growth and made it the powerhouse of the EU economy.
Warning on Monday that Germany faced a “historic challenge”, chancellor Olaf Scholz added that “the crisis won’t pass in a few months” because Russia’s war in Ukraine “has changed everything, and supply chains are still disrupted by the pandemic”.
The sanctions imposed on Moscow by western countries have also hit trade, along with China’s coronavirus lockdowns, squeezing demand for goods from Germany’s export-focused economy.
Scholz was speaking after talks with trade union leaders, economists and employers’ groups aimed at tackling the cost of living crisis.
Rainer Dulger, head of the Confederation of German Employers’ Associations, said after Monday’s meeting held by Scholz that Germany was facing the “toughest economic and social crisis since reunification”.
“Difficult years lie ahead of us,” he added. “We can no longer take for granted the continuous economic growth that we experienced before the Covid-19 pandemic and the Ukraine war.”
Recommended
Imports increased 2.7 per cent to €126.7bn from April to May while month-on-month exports fell 0.5 per cent to €125.8bn, according to data released on Monday by the federal statistical agency.
“Germany’s trade surplus has now evaporated, thanks mainly to soaring
imports, offsetting otherwise decent momentum in exports,” said Claus Vistesen, an economist at Pantheon Macroeconomics. He added that he
expected the country to continue running a trade deficit over the summer.
May’s fall in overall German exports was partly because of a 2.8 per cent monthly drop in exports to other EU countries, while imports from those countries increased 2.5 per cent. Exports to the US increased 5.7 per cent and those to China were up 0.5 per cent, but exports to the UK fell 2.5 cent.
“In the past. Germany could always rely on strong exports to revive the economy and today’s numbers show the trade balance will not return as a positive element for growth for at least the next couple of years,” said Carsten Brzeski, head of macro research at ING.
Economists expect high energy prices and weak exports to hit German growth this year. ING is forecasting German gross domestic product will shrink in the second quarter and Brzeski said: “There is a high probability that Germany and the rest of the euro area will enter recession this year.”
Dulger said companies “don’t know which fire to put out first”. He said there was a “shortage of skilled workers, material and staff, and supply chains are in tatters. It will remain a challenge to keep firms open.”
Prices of German imports rose more than 30 per cent in the year to May — reflecting soaring energy and commodity prices — while export prices rose almost 16 per cent. While trade data is reported on a nominal basis, the data is adjusted for inflation when calculating GDP.
German exports to Russia recovered some of their recent falls, rising almost 30 per cent from the previous month to €1bn, but they remain less than half the level of a year ago. German imports from Russia fell almost 10 per cent to €3.3bn. Moscow has cut the supply of natural gas to Germany in recent weeks, raising fears of shortages that could force some industrial production to be shut down.
Many German companies announced they were severing ties with Russia after the EU imposed sanctions on thousands of Russian individuals and businesses. Brussels plans to ban EU imports of Russian oil as part of a sixth package of sanctions against Moscow.
There has been a similar deterioration in the trade balance of the overall eurozone, which had a trade deficit in goods of €32.4bn in April, a reversal from a surplus of €14.9bn a year earlier. Eurozone trade figures for May are due to be released on July 15.

Though not as bad as IMF, this morning, predicts for UK.

link

But the IMF always get it wrong.

A bit like yourself, Tommy

The TV face off:

"....both gave the impression they would happily see the country on its knees and let the planet burn in exchange for 24 hours in Downing Street. Each accused the other of being a dangerous halfwit. The worry for the country is that they are both right. Lucky us." [Guardian]

tts; "But the IMF always get it wrong."

Quite true,

that's why they have to keep revising their figure

UK never manages to do quite as well as they expect.

Rishi Sunak, seems to have an attitude problem, I have always liked him, but from what I can see now, Boris must have told him that he wanted the tax burden reduced on the public, to offset the energy, and other cost of living price rises, caused by the Ukraine War, and to scrap the Corporation Tax increase, to keep business investment coming into this country, to stave off the worst effects of the probable looming recession.
So Boris probably told him to reverse the National Insurance increase, and to reduce other taxes.

Rishi, did not agree with that, so he could have done one of two things, resign in protest, or orchestrate a coup against Boris, along with Sajid Javid, taking advantage of some of the gaffs which Boris has done, which is what he did, and the way he has been aggressive in the TV debates, interrupting, and talking over Liz Truss and the moderator, gives an indication about what sort of Prime Minster he would be, which is that he would be a bad tempered dictator, like Gordon Brown was.

like gordon brown was . wot a joke & that,s after saving your bank account.

Whupsy

He didn't save my bank account, but he raided yours, with that Windfall Tax on the Pension Funds.

No matter who is the Government, it will not stop the ripping off of we the public like what is going on at the present time.

Especially with the essential everyday food items like milk, bread, soup, coffee, tea etc, petrol and diesel, energy that we, especially what the elderly and the poor need most in life to live. Good job water comes out of the hills and mountains or else they would be ripping us off more with that as well.

Watching the battle for the Tory Party leadership is akin to seeing Nero playing a fiddle while Rome burns.

And why some on here think that it would be any different if the other motley bunch was in charge is laughable!

he did,nt raid it because it was john major who did it & up to now there,s something like 7 billion quit the government have took from the MPS from when the deal was struck in 1994. and yes brown did save your money 1stroke by bolstering the banks & not letting them go bust so yoo would,nt lose your money .

OWD CODGER/
Just paid my half -yearly water bill ,and what i find amusing reading it was the item were they charge for removal of the rain that drops on my roof ,"they say it cost's them to take it away " The mind boggles as to what they can charge ! GB.

peter israel , Can you just get your underpants from a twist,, I was only asking a question , as for myself i don't think work applies for me being in my 70 s as for choice to live that will have to be my home town of WIGAN.
As for pulling up the draw bridge ? You yes yooo are assuming a lot of wrong opinions about myself . So please step down from your tall horse ,if i want to ask a question or any more i will , and yooooo has the right to reply or not . GB.

Whupsy

My bank did not need bailing out, and where do you get that load of codswallop, that it was John Major who raided the pension funds ?

He was into a somewhat different form of Jolly Rodgerin

TTS

This is Gordon Brown’s move that eventually killed off company defined benefit pension schemes.
Since the origin of pension funds it was a principle that money went into schemes tax free and was taxed when money went out.
Dividends covered over half of the money into pension schemes. Gordon Brown’s scrapping of dividend tax relief meant that defined benefit pensions were no longer affordable to companies.

Pensions

Thank you gaffer

try using your search engine & look for the deal with major & the MPS fool & you,ll find that major robbed us of at least half of our pension which is still being robbed today. codswallop indeed & good on gordon brown so you can all know wot it,s like to have your pension robbed from you .

Another opinion

Whupsy

Are you on about this LINK which was done in 1994 ?

Did that have anything to do with what Gordon Brown did, starting in 1997, when Labour and Tony Blair came to power ?

i never said it did 1stroke . try keeping up .

Whups

The Inland Revenue rules that pension fund surpluses should be taken out of schemes and distributed between employers and employees. In the private sector surpluses were distributed in favour of the employer up to a 70 30 split.
In the MPS up to 1994 the split on a surplus was 70% in favour of the miners. After 1994 the split was 50 50.
There was no change to the MPS fund. If you were ‘robbed’ it was for 20% of the surplus of the fund at a valuation date which was nowhere near half of your pension. In your case it is length of service that has been the the more determining factor in the value of your pension.

try accessing the facts gaffer .there was never a 70-30% split & i know because we get a quarterly mag from the MPS & it states how much is paid to gaurntors which is a 50-50 split . that money they take is supposed to go into a seperate fund just for the miners which to date has never paid any miner out when they reach retirement age . so where is that money going to ? , maybe the treasury ? .

and another thing gaffer that deal shud never have been signed because a criminal was on the board of trustees who signed off on that deal a guy called neil greatrex a scab who embezelled union funds & charities to repairs & improvements on his house & got 4 years for it .

and here,s the proof gaffer . Surplus sharing
We are often asked why the split of surplus sharing is 50/50 and the simple answer is that this was part of
the arrangements negotiated between the Government of the day and the Trustees in 1994. The power to
change this arrangement lies jointly with the Guarantor and the Trustees. Neither party can change the
arrangements without the agreement of the other party. Since 1994, in reflection of the changing financial
circumstances of the Scheme, the Trustees have asked the Government to re-consider the terms of the
Guarantee, including the surplus sharing arrangements, on a number of occasions. The Government has
made it repeatedly clear in its response to the Trustees’ requests that it does not regard the 1994
arrangements as being unfair and that it has no intention of agreeing to changes that are not in its interests.

Whups

That’s what I’ve posted above.
My father was a member of the MPS with his benefits passing to my mother when he passed away.
I used to go through with them the annual report to members from the MPS. I can remember clearly the 1994 split.
When my mother turned 90 the MPS offered her approx. two and a half years payments to exit the scheme. I advised her to turn it down. Thankfully she did since she lived for another eight years.
To put some meat on the bone. The government( taxpayer) will have had £6 billion ish from the scheme as its 50%. 30% would have yielded £3.6 billion. Dividing the £2.4 billion difference by the number of pensioner and deferred members would have put circa £18000 per member back in the pot. The current benefit payout is 6% of the value of the fund which for a member with maximum no of years qualification would be an extra pension around £20/25 per week.

".... The government (taxpayer) will have had £6 billion ish from the scheme .... "

"Objection"!

"Order, Order"!!

gaffer i,m in it now & so was my old chap & i know 1st hand that it,s NEVER BEEN A 70-30% SPLIT. now i dont know where you get your dodgy facts from but your wrong & that is a fact . maybe you shud get a new search engine that you can copy & paste from.

tonker at the last count it,s at 7.1 billion.

Whups, I know the MPS is being plundered, but I don't know how much to. What I objected to was gaffer saying the taxpayer has had it.

PS: The 70 : 30 % split (in the miners favour) that gaffer mentioned was in place pre-1994.

he,s been putting false info on here for ages & iv,e said in the past that he,s wrong but some on here think he,s god . maybe he,ll take your advice as he,ll not listen to me.that 7.1 billion was the latest that iv,e heard & iv,e not heard that any miner on retirement age has been paid out of that supposed fund & still getting their pension from the MPS .

70:30

this is a report for a proposed deal after the courts said the deal was unfair . needless to say that it was never acted upon & certainly not by a tory government . it,s still a 50-50 split & i shud know . try harder on your search engine & with your "copy & paste " gaffer.

just for your reading gaffer . --

On privatisation of British Coal in 1994, an arrangement was made between the Government and the trustees of the Mineworkers Pension Scheme (MPS) on future arrangements for pensions after privatisation. Key elements of this were that:

The MPS was closed to further contributions.
A government guarantee meant that scheme members would always receive the benefits they had earned up to privatisation, increased in line with inflation.
50% of the surplus in the scheme at privatisation was used to enhance members’ pensions immediately. The other 50% was put in an investment reserve, to be called on should a deficit arise. To the extent that these funds are not needed to maintain benefits, they are to be transferred to the government over time.
Scheme members and the government would receive equal shares of any distributable surpluses from valuations after 31 March 1994. The members’ 50% may be used to improve benefits. (HC Deb 27 April 1994 c167-9W).

The decision to share the surplus 50:50 was “agreed between the Government, in its role as Guarantor, and the Scheme Trustees,” rather than being based on actuarial advice (PQ128727, 26 February 2018). The National Audit Office said the guarantee would be of significant reassurance to pensioners (HC 360 1995-96).

In the 2000s, the Coalfield Communities Campaign argued for a review of the surplus-sharing arrangements, arguing that the guarantee had been struck on actuarial advice which, with hindsight, may have been too cautious and that a “50% share of an unexpectedly large surplus is too much.” The Labour Government looked again at the arrangements but decided that, against the background of large falls in stock markets, it would not be right to change the arrangements (HC Deb 7 March 2003, cc 1278-9W).

On 23 December 2020, a group of MPs representing coalfield communities wrote to the chair of the Business Energy and Industrial Strategy Select Committee calling for an inquiry into the issue. They drew attention to the fact that the average pension for former miners in the Scheme is £84 pw and that the Government had received over £4 bn from the scheme but made no contribution to it since 1994. They argued that funds remaining in the investment reserve should be used to “provide a direct and almost immediate financial uplift to many retired miners’ pensions, providing greater financial security for them and their families.”

In evidence to the BEIS Committee on 23 March 2021, the MPS trustees said that at privatisation they were essentially, faced with a fait accompli: ‘Take it or leave it. If you want the guarantee, it is 50:50.’(Q3). Payments to the Government had already exceeded the £4bn projected at privatisation by Binder Hamlyn: it had received £4.4 billion and was due to receive a further £1.9bn over the next few years – a total of £6.3 billion (Q7). The trustees said that if the money in the investment reserve was available for distribution to members, it would enable an increase of £14 pw in the average pension (Q28 and 36).

In evidence on 13 April 2021, Minister of State for Business, Energy and Clean Growth, Anne Marie Trevelyan, said she understood that the trustees would still make the same choice today regarding the surplus share in order to have the guarantee. It ensured “no detriment,” inflation-linked annual increases (Q44) and provided “backstop support” to a successful investment policy (Q47). Asked about the proposal to distribute the investment reserve to members, she said this was “the backstop proposition that ensures that the cash is there, should there be a need, in order to support members” (Q55).

In its report published on 29 April 2021, the BEIS Committee called for a change in the surplus sharing arrangements and an immediate uplift in mineworkers’ pensions, to be funded by a transfer to the scheme of the funds in the Investment Reserve:

The Government should also relinquish its entitlement to the Investment Reserve, and transfer the £1.2bn fund to miners, to provide an immediate cash uplift to former miners.
The Mineworkers’ Pension Scheme report finds that, given the strong financial performance of the Mineworkers’ Pension Scheme, and the “vast sums” which have been paid to the Government, it is “unconscionable” that many of the Scheme’s beneficiaries are struggling to make ends meet.
The Committee’s report examines the Scheme’s controversial 50:50 split surplus sharing arrangement and notes that “allowing the arrangement to continue would appear antithetical to the Government’s stated aim of redressing socio-economic inequality and ‘levelling up’ left-behind communities”.
The arrangement was agreed in 1994 in return for a Government guarantee that the value of pensions would never decrease.
The report notes that, to date, the Government has received £4.4bn in cash payments from the Scheme and is due to receive at least a further £1.9bn – at least £6.3bn in total. The Government has not paid anything into the Scheme, and the Committee’s inquiry heard it is extremely unlikely that it ever will (BEIS Committee press release, 29 April 2021).

The MPS trustees said they welcomed the report and supported the recommendations within it.

In its response to the Committee on 28 June 2021, the Government said it was unable to agree to the Committee’s recommendations. The trustees had been “clear that they would prefer to retain the guarantee rather than take 100% of future surpluses.” The Government continued to believe that “the arrangement agreed in 1994 was fair and beneficial to both Scheme members and taxpayers. Scheme members have rightly shared in the benefits, but the Government has taken on all the risk.” (Government response to BEIS Committee report on the MPS, HC 386 2021-22, 5 July 2021).

Chair of the BEIS Committee, Darren Jones it represented “a slap in the face for pension scheme members that the Government is continuing its ‘take it or leave it’ approach on arrangements around the Government guarantee.” (Mineworkers’ pensions – Government’s response ‘slap in the face’ for scheme members, says Business Committee Chair, 5 July 2021).

The MPS trustees expressed their disappointment that the Government had rejected the Committee’s recommendations, which they strongly supported (BEIS Committee report: response from Government, MPS website 5 July 2021).

The National Union of Mineworkers (NUM) called for “a more balanced approach to the distribution of surplus funds, with the recommendation that its entitlement to the Investment Reserve of £1.2bn is also redirected to pension members.” (NUM demands a fair deal for mineworkers, 5 July 2021).

A petition on the Parliament website calling on the Government to implement the BEIS Select Committee recommendation on Mineworkers’ Pension Scheme has 4,543 signatures.
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Documents to download

Mineworkers' pensions (930 KB , PDF)
Download full report

Whups

The below paragraph clearly states that the 70:30 split was acted upon. If you think it reads differently you’ve got a problem.
There’s no point in twisting the facts to suit your stance on a situation because it just makes you look like the village idiot.

10. At both the 1987 and 1990 valuations, the Scheme was in surplus.19 On both occasions a 70:30 split (in favour of members) was agreed.20 The 30% surplus taken by British Coal equated to the cost of its contributions holiday.21 The 50:50 split of surpluses agreed in 1994 was also applied to the £813m surplus determined in the 1993 valuation.22
11. The 70:30 split agreed in 1987 and 1990 has subsequently prompted questions about why members’ entitlement was reduced to a 50:50 split from the 1993 valuation onwards.23 In response, the Government has highlighted that the 70:30 splits in 1987 and 1990 were agreed on the basis of the Scheme’s performance at those specific valuation points, and therefore did not constitute “a fixed arrangement”.

gaffer IT WAS NOT ACTED UPON . i get mags from the MPS every 3 months & it says there is still a 50-50 split . wots it going to take for you to realise your WRONG .

There’s obviously still a 50:50 split that’s what the current agreement states. The historical record above show that previously there was a 70:30 split in favour of the miners.
The general direction of the select committee report above was that the 50:50 split was unfair to the miners given that previous splits were 70:30.
If you can’t see that there’s no point in furthering the discussion.

Return to topic: Liz Truss

I know that, as have many other politicos, she read PPE at Oxford. That is Politics, philosophy and Economics.

But she does repeatedly appear to come across as economically illiterate. (OK, I know economists will disagree, one with another, but it is rather glaring when someone has not grasped the basics.)

I thought I would Google to see what class of degree she got.

I cannot find the answer. Do any of you know?

Call me Dave got a First, and Boris an upper second: politicos usually seem keen that we know of their attainments.

She didn't just scrape through did she?

As I have previously remarked, I bet her minders do not allow Andrew Neil anywhere near her.

From Wikipedia

"Professional career

From 1996 to 2000, Truss worked for Shell, during which time she qualified as a Chartered Management Accountant (ACMA) in 1999. In 2000, Truss was employed by Cable & Wireless and rose to economic director before leaving in 2005"

She was Chief Secretary to the Treasury, from June 2017 to July 2019 Description

There's some meat on the bones there, Ena

She still comes across as I have described: as her opponent readily points out.

It could be just untruthfulness on her behalf.

I do not disagree with all of her approaches, but she seems blunder prone:
eg Dissing her school, which it seems is outstanding,
stating that Baltic states were on the Black Sea, not understanding what stagflation consists of....

etc etc

Well I think they should have stuck with Boris, because Rishi or Liz, I can see Labour being elected at the next General Election, and that means that we might have Lisa Nandy for Prime Minister, so who would be the best Prime Minister, Lisa or Lizzy

So are you saying that in your opinion neither Rishi or Liz will succeed in piloting UK through the difficulties ahead?

I don't know, but the Tories biggest electoral asset, as been got rid of, by the traitors who he gave a job to in the first place, and the biggest traitor of them all, is Rishi Sunak, and he is coming across, has having a ruthless, I know it all nasty attitude to everything, so I don't like him, and I don't think that folk will vote for him.

As regards Liz Truss, I don't know what is going to happen with her, she could do alright, or she may be awful, I wish that the Labour Party had a decent leader, and that momentum lot had been kicked out of the party.