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Whupsy and the Tax Man

Started by: Tommy Two Stroke (8368)

Whupsy

How does the Tax Man, collect the tax that people and businesses owe ?

Started: 21st Nov 2021 at 14:46

Posted by: whups (7288) 

let me tell you wot they do 1stroke . they open up an office in a tax haven then send their money into it then claim it back as a loan & claim tax relief on that loan which comes out of the public purse , then they put everything they own & sell it to their "own" company & then rent it to themselves so when the taxman comes calling they cant take a thing because it,s rented .

Replied: 21st Nov 2021 at 17:15

Posted by: Tommy Two Stroke (8368)

Whupsy

That is not answering the question, but it just goes to show how you are banging on, in topic after topic, about how folk and businesses are not paying tax.

But do you know how the system works, now and back then when you were working for the NCB, and I am not making any cheap jokes, as you put it about miners, but you do need to be put reet, on about how the tax system works, particularly how it works in the here and now.

Replied: 21st Nov 2021 at 17:27

Posted by: whups (7288) 

yes it does because everything goes into that shell company & they pay no tax.as far as miners goes we are getting stopped between £40-£50 quid a week in our oap because the torys forced the mps to outsource our pension .

Replied: 21st Nov 2021 at 17:30

Posted by: Tommy Two Stroke (8368)

Whupsy

Your answers refer to tax avoidance, and tax evasion, which are two different things, and your pension, my question is not about those things, my question is to your understanding of how the government collected taxes, lets say 50yrs ago in 1971, when Heath was Prime Minister, and now, how is tax collected by the government now, it is different to how it was collected back, so what is your understanding of the tax collection systems, then and now.

I ask the question, because you are very handy when it comes to accusing folk of not paying their tax.

Replied: 22nd Nov 2021 at 14:48

Posted by: PeterP (8926)

If you are on benefits would you pay tax on said benefits

Replied: 22nd Nov 2021 at 15:11

Posted by: sonlyme (2975)

Peter p.If you are on pips or attendance allowance they are tax free and as you ols age pension is less than the tax threshold you wont pay tax on that.If you have a company pension you will pay tax if added to the oap and they are over the threshold which is 12500 or there abouts.

Replied: 22nd Nov 2021 at 15:29
Last edited by sonlyme: 22nd Nov 2021 at 15:31:10

Posted by: PeterP (8926)

Sonlyme I know about having to pay tax on my pension because my pension and old age pension takes me over the threshold I am on about other benefits eg JSA housing benefit etc which most people who do not work can claim. I ask because the illegal immigrants can claim £39 per day so it takes them over the tax threshold

Replied: 22nd Nov 2021 at 16:49

Posted by: First Mate (404)

Peterp that figure you gave is, I believe, per week not per day.

Replied: 22nd Nov 2021 at 17:04

Posted by: sonlyme (2975)

the top 1% of taxpayers account for 30% of tax receipts
link
I read somewhere that the top five percent of earners pay 95% of income tax collected.

Replied: 22nd Nov 2021 at 18:34
Last edited by sonlyme: 22nd Nov 2021 at 18:41:05

Posted by: gaffer (6893) 

Sonlyme

There are only 420,000 people paying 30% of Income tax receipts, it wouldn’t need many to emigrate to put a large hole in the country’s finances.
The top 5% account for around half of income tax receipts.

Replied: 22nd Nov 2021 at 19:53

Posted by: sonlyme (2975)

I stand corrected gaffer.

Replied: 22nd Nov 2021 at 20:02

Posted by: whups (7288) 

which you do regular 1stroke .only the fools pay tax at the high rate the rest send it out of the country & pay nowt .

Replied: 22nd Nov 2021 at 23:50

Posted by: Tommy Two Stroke (8368)

Whupsy

Yoo have't got a cloo, as to how the taxation system works.

I will give yoo a cloo though, think about direct and indirect taxation

Replied: 23rd Nov 2021 at 04:15

Posted by: whups (7288) 

it looks like yoo have, yoo hav,nt paid any tax for over 30yrs .ive told yoo how the rich do it & big businesses do it & if yoo cant see it then hard luck because most of them are claiming tax relief on the loans they get back which yoo pay for .

Replied: 23rd Nov 2021 at 12:21
Last edited by whups: 23rd Nov 2021 at 12:23:35

Posted by: frecky (261)

Whilst not agreeing with the tax system that has loopholes to move money out of the country, it is all legal... It would take a very brave govt. to close many of these loopholes. If they did big business would just up sticks and sod off, which would lead to job losses and more tax revenue lost. Which in turn would create more people on benefits and unemployment rising, which could lead to more rent arrears, leading to more evictions putting local authorities having more housing problems etc etc etc etc.

Replied: 23rd Nov 2021 at 12:51

Posted by: whups (7288) 

why shud it be deemed "legal" ? . did,nt cameron say jimmy carr was "morally wrong" when he send his out ? . why shud these who have all the money pay no tax & the normal guy pays 29% ? . it,s wrong & this loophole needs closing .

Replied: 23rd Nov 2021 at 12:54

Posted by: frecky (261)

Whups....the top 5% pay half of all tax revenue, would you rather they all had all the loopholes closed, considering how much they contribute to the country via the tax revenue. Or have them leave this country and decimate the way we live now. I personally, whilst not agreeing with it, would prefer the status quo rather than lose 50% of revenue, unless you know how it can be replaced without big business....

Replied: 23rd Nov 2021 at 13:12

Posted by: Tommy Two Stroke (8368)

Whupsy

Like I say you haven't a cloo how the taxation system works, do you.

Your answer to every question is a bitter tirade against the Tory Party.

And have yoo been to Wigan Market yet, Whupsy, to buy that sense of humour, which yoo are short of

Replied: 23rd Nov 2021 at 13:13

Posted by: broady (17440) 

Up to £50,000 you only pay 20% according to the Government web site.

Replied: 23rd Nov 2021 at 13:13

Posted by: frecky (261)

Correct broady......couldn't be bothered mentioning that.

Replied: 23rd Nov 2021 at 13:23

Posted by: whups (7288) 

a tory web site no doubt . i know more than you 1stroke . here,s a challenge for you take a look at netflix & see wot they do with their money & come back on here & tell us all .

Replied: 23rd Nov 2021 at 15:23

Posted by: broady (17440) 

So was your 29% correct. It is the HM Government site.

Replied: 23rd Nov 2021 at 15:29

Posted by: whups (7288) 

why dont you tell us ? .

Replied: 23rd Nov 2021 at 15:37

Posted by: gaffer (6893) 

Netflix

More than half of UK revenues are spent in the UK making TV productions. In the last four years UK employment has gone from a handful to over 400. Average salary around £200,000, that’s a lot of income tax and NI payments.
It’s not surprising that there was only £4 million due in corporation tax. The country needs more companies like Netflix

Broady it’s 25%.

Replied: 23rd Nov 2021 at 15:44

Posted by: broady (17440) 

The one I read said 20% up to £50,000+ if you get basic allowance of £12000+. Can’t remember the exact figures.

Replied: 23rd Nov 2021 at 15:48

Posted by: whups (7288) 

you hav,nt touched the issue gaffer . they send millions over to their shell office in amsterdam then claim it back as a "loan" then claim tax relief on that loan upto which they have had more than 2 million quid of taxpayers money in the 2.5 yrs since they set up netflix international in holland . funny how you omitted to put that on , but i,m not suprised you would,nt look that far .

Replied: 23rd Nov 2021 at 15:51

Posted by: gaffer (6893) 

Whups
The UK office acts as the European HQ for Netflix.
Be like the UK Treasury and look at the bigger picture, Netflix employees are paying £ 30 odd million in tax and national insurance . In addition the Netflix business rates will come to a substantial sum.
It’s time you realised that every time you post you frighten away anybody who might be thinking of a change and voting Labour. They read your comments and think ‘Christ is that what Labour stands for’.

Replied: 23rd Nov 2021 at 16:11

Posted by: whups (7288) 

you still hav,nt answered the question on netflix , why is that ? .

Replied: 23rd Nov 2021 at 16:32

Posted by: frecky (261)

Give up gaffer, it's pointless.....

Replied: 24th Nov 2021 at 10:53

Posted by: whups (7288) 

ask yourself this frecky why wont he answer the question ? . it,s plain enough all he does is skirts around the truth & for whatever reason wont tell anyone wot netflix is getting away with & claiming on the loan of it,s own money & claiming tax relief on it which comes out of the public purse which we all put into .

Replied: 24th Nov 2021 at 11:31

Posted by: Tommy Two Stroke (8368)

Good morning Whupsy

Replied: 24th Nov 2021 at 12:33

Posted by: frecky (261)

Whups.....that's what big businesses do all over the world, not just in the UK......they get so big and employ loads of taxpaying people making it difficult for any govt. anywhere to clamp down hard on them. The point people are trying to explain to you is yes, you're correct in these firms having the legal and financial clout to move their money about so as to benefit them, but.......they employ too many folk to just shut them down by closing loopholes. If they all went as I said before, more unemployment, benefit claims, rent arrears, etc etc.....Remember this was happening just as much under Labour....One last comment...if you won a few hundred thousand when you were younger, would you just leave it in the bank or would you use it to make more money by doing (albeit a smaller scale) just like big firms do?

Replied: 24th Nov 2021 at 13:54

Posted by: oldswint (17)

Whups - I think you have been brainwashed. Unless you are an experienced Queens Counsel with chambers in London - which I know you are not - you are totally out of your depth in even getting involved with a topic as complicated as international taxation. You would be better and have much more fun reading the Dandy or Beano (if they still exist) rather than the left wing publications.

Replied: 24th Nov 2021 at 14:53

Posted by: Tommy Two Stroke (8368)

He's a pillock

Replied: 24th Nov 2021 at 15:01

Posted by: whups (7288) 

it,s not right wether or not it,s big business . why is it that they are justified in doin this practise when everyone else has to toe-the-line . 1stroke if your brains were made of chocolate yoo would,nt have enought to fill a treat .why dont you doubters look into wot iv,e said then come back & then tell me i,m wrong ? . none of you even make the effort to do this . i know i,m right because iv,e made it my business to look into it .the facts are there .benefits are only 10% of the welfare bill frecky the biggest payouts are the oap pensions at around 67% if you care to look

Replied: 24th Nov 2021 at 23:45
Last edited by whups: 24th Nov 2021 at 23:52:46

Posted by: gaffer (6893) 

Replied: 25th Nov 2021 at 09:47

Posted by: frecky (261)

Thanks for that gaffer, bang up to date.
Whups, what can't you understand....it's big business that happens all over the world....nobody likes it but it happens and the consequences of these people leaving are worrying to say the least. Now answer my question re the money.....would you just leave it in the bank or make it work for you? To be honest whups I don't think you know what you want, you complain about firms taking money overseas yet earlier on this thread you said the people who did pay their tax were fools.....oldswint has a point........last comment on this subject, it's pointless.

Replied: 25th Nov 2021 at 11:12

Posted by: whups (7288) 

i dont care about big business all over the world i,m concerned about wot,s going on here & it stinks .it,s a rfact that netflix is doing this procedure of sending their profits to a shell company called netflix international in amsterdam then claim it back as a loan & also claim tax relief on that loan which they have had over 2 million of public money from the treasury . now all gaffer says is it,s not illegal but you have to look who set it up in the 1st place ? . i,m this way if anyone makes any money in this country they must pay their dues . now frecky tell me is it fair that amazon made 20 . 6 billion in this country last year & paid only £ 492 million in tax , a fraction of what it shud pay . i know gaffer will say they invested £ 1. 2 billion but it,s far short of wot it shud pay . getting away with murder , you better believe it .

Replied: 25th Nov 2021 at 11:43

Posted by: ena malcup (237)

I recall when Amazon started out selling books.

WH Smith did a 'me too': they started to sell online and at a discount.

The difference is that WHS had to pay UK taxes where Amazon did not, so competitive advantage to Amazon. WHS soon forced out of the competition.

Don't get me wrong. I buy from Amazon. Probably it is a good thing.

But it is at the cost of taking trade from UK businesses, and of eliminating competition.

We are probably paying more for our online purchases than would have obtained had there been a level playing field, and a competitive network of online suppliers.

Replied: 25th Nov 2021 at 14:41

Posted by: gaffer (6893) 

Whups

Amazon didn’t make £20.6 billion, they achieved sales revenue of £20.6 billion. They paid £1.55 billion in direct and indirect taxes in 2020.
When Amazon finance directors prepare the accounts for tax purposes they use, as do all other businesses, Tolleys tax guide. This covers all UK tax legislation and runs to 18,000 pages. Every page a potential loophole. It would take the worlds fastest speaker 200 hours to read it aloud. Yet you’re commenting on it as an authority after reading the Daily Mirror.

Replied: 25th Nov 2021 at 15:14
Last edited by gaffer: 25th Nov 2021 at 15:46:13

Posted by: whups (7288) 

you mean over 20yrs in tax gaffer ?it only paid £ 492 million in tax for 2020 & made over 20billion ? .i dont want to know the ins & outs because your not getting to the bottom of wots going on & i,m not reading the mirror or the finiancial times either .i hope labour get in & change this unfair loophole.try putting some soul in your rhetoric .

Replied: 25th Nov 2021 at 15:39

Posted by: Tommy Two Stroke (8368)

Whupsy

Doo yoo not understand the difference between, turnover/revenue/sales, those three words mean the same thing, and profit ?

What is turnover ?

What is profit ?

Then you have the top line, and the bottom line, which refers to gross and net profit

Replied: 25th Nov 2021 at 16:09

Posted by: Tommy Two Stroke (8368)

Whupsy is going to have kittens when he reads this LINK

Replied: 25th Nov 2021 at 17:50

Posted by: broady (17440) 

In fairness it does reek of corruption. Sadly I don’t know how it can be stopped. My opinion is that all parties are corrupt. For that matter the world is corrupt.

Replied: 25th Nov 2021 at 20:08

Posted by: whups (7288) 

nothin new 1stroke . i dont care about turnover or even side over because it,s wrong . they are getting away with murder & yoo know it . it isnt fair that these lot are sending money out of the country & getting it all back as a loan then claiming tax relief on it . they pay hardly anything into the system but expect a ambulance to turn up or a fire engine & they pay zilch to keep them going .

Replied: 25th Nov 2021 at 23:55

Posted by: broady (17440) 

They must pay business rates on all their premises in the UK and I think that is what pay for emergency services. Not 100% sure.

Replied: 26th Nov 2021 at 00:38

Posted by: whups (7288) 

broady netflix isnt paying a penny in fact they are taking out by claimimg tax relief . but i,m sure if a fire broke out at their studio they would expect a fire engine to turn up ? .

Replied: 26th Nov 2021 at 01:34

Posted by: broady (17440) 

For once try reading the above. I think emergency services are paid from the business rates. You need to get a bit of fresh air and clear your head. With every passing day you spout more repetitive nonsense.

Replied: 26th Nov 2021 at 04:51

Posted by: whups (7288) 

ask yourself this why has,nt netflix took anyone to court if wot they are saying about them is wrong ? . it,s been scrutinised by various tv companies about wot they are doing ? . they only set-up netflix international a couple of yrs ago & they,ve already had over 2 million in tax relief on that loan they give to themselves ? .the only thing being spouted here is your denial about wots goin on .

Replied: 26th Nov 2021 at 11:38
Last edited by whups: 26th Nov 2021 at 11:39:38

Posted by: gaffer (6893) 

Thirteen million people in the UK are Netflix subscribers and enjoying the benefits. Much better than the BBC.

Replied: 26th Nov 2021 at 13:48

Posted by: whups (7288) 

so wot gaffer they are paying for it twice ? .

Replied: 26th Nov 2021 at 14:48

Posted by: Tommy Two Stroke (8368)

Whupsy

Did yoo like Ken Dodd

Replied: 26th Nov 2021 at 15:33

Posted by: whups (7288) 

looks just like yoo 1stroke

Replied: 26th Nov 2021 at 23:44

Posted by: Tommy Two Stroke (8368)

Replied: 28th Nov 2021 at 11:19

 

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