The new UK-EU deal

This new UK-EU deal thing, is it the best thing invented since sliced bread, or is it a load of crap.


LINK

What do you think ?

I only know that in 2016, a referendum was held and the majority of the electorate made a democratic decision to come out of the European Union!

Is Starmer any relation to Scargill He wants to dictate policies and try to go against Brexit which was voted for by the people

Owd Codger & PeterP

Yes, that is what happened, we voted to leave the EU in 2016, and we left in 2020 and completed leaving in 2021 at the end of the transition period, but is this latest deal a reversal of Brexit ?

a proud latic's supporter

Yes, but not by the front door, but the back door which undermimes the decision of the electorate in 2016.

If Starmer and his Government beleive that the majority of the electorate want to re-enter the European Union, they should either have the guts to have a new referendum or even have a general election to request a vote of confidence by the electorate of their obvious EU Policy of re-entry.

Posted by: a proud latics supporter
" but is this latest deal a reversal of Brexit ?"

No. But it's a good start.
There hasn't been much hooting and hollering about it from the remainers. So, that should tell you something

Cheshire Puss

"There hasn't been much hooting and hollering about it from the remainers"

Are yoo sure about that Puss.



To me those 'Remainers' looked to be Cocka-a-Hoop about the deal.

Do we take it that you support re-entry by the back door and not by the front door of a democratic decision of the electorate on what is a policy which affects the lives of everyone in our country and not just those with a vested interest?

Oh, and from what I saw in the newspaper headlines yesterday, the only hooting and hollering was by the Daily Mirror which comes as no surprise!

Owd Codger said:

"Do we take it that you support re-entry by the back door"

No I don't

a proud latic's supporter

Neither should anyone who believes in democracy!

Tim Stanley Daily Telegraph sketch.

Starmer succumbs to the EU hook, line and sinker
Brexit has been de-boned as we’ve returned to paying Brussels for the opportunity to follow its rules.
Prime Minister,” asked Chris Hope at the EU/UK summit, “have you been stitched up like a kipper?” It’s worse than that, mon ami: the Eurocrats have put him in his plaice and he’s dancing to their tuna. Excuse the puns, but once you start, it’s hard to break the halibut.
Let historians note that Brexit was finally de-boned on Sunday night, when Europe’s top diplomats – or, as our Foreign Secretary allegedly calls them, “the f------ French” – took Starmer aside to say they’ve had second thoughts about his offer and would like our fishing industry, too.
I’m sure it took our very own Metternich about two minutes to fold. This is the trade deal whizz-kid who was meant to sell Chagos to a tiny African country and ended up paying them – plus he loves the EU and would gladly feed Captain Birdseye to the sharks if it got us back in.
So Keir Starmer, proud son of an EU protocol, looked very satisfied when he unveiled the agreement next day at Lancaster House – the beautiful decor symbolically hidden behind a temporary stage painted battleship grey. Ursula von der Leyen, standing next to him, was subtly dressed as an EU flag. She looked ready to plant herself in the ground and never leave.
This is Europe. This is our PM. Utilitarian, corporate, moving forward “at pace”. Bear in mind this deal was supposed to be a simple exchange: they get our fish in exchange for faster queues at border control. Perfectly suited to Brits who fly to Ibiza more often than we eat sardines.
Yet the talk was of being good Europeans and of protecting the “rules-based order”, with visiting rights for noisy foreign students – why do they shout on trains? – pitched as the first step towards a more enlightened world. More summits predicted: climb every butter mountain.
Finding himself among like-minded bureaucrats, Sir Keir referred progressively to “fishermen and fisherwomen” – but not to “e-gates and she gates”, or to “fisher people”, even though many of them refuse to be defined by their tackle.
“Britain is back on the world stage,” he declared. Really? Where has it been? Perhaps doing repertory theatre in Outer Mongolia. The cost of his statesmanship – and we’re lucky he didn’t throw in the Elgin Marbles and Princess Anne to sweeten the deal – is that we’ve returned to paying the EU for the opportunity to follow its rules.
It’s like being a member of the EU minus the pleasures of moaning about being in the EU. In fact, it’s proven harder to get Britain out of Brussels than it was to get Gary Lineker out of the BBC, and, in both cases, one suspects the decision will soon be reversed.
Cab drivers must now be asking why they voted for Brexit at all. “Twelve years minus our fishing rights? You get less for murder.” (Though longer for joking about it on social media). The Eurocrats, by biding their time and waiting for a proper chump to enter No 10, have seen history move back in their favour.
Chris Hope was right. They’ve got us by the eel.

a proud latic's supporter

You asked for opinions about the deal, so why put the purple face following Gaffers posting?

Owd Codger

The purple face as you call it, is the 'Shock' emoji, smilie, or whatever you want to call it, it means that I am 'shocked'

- Shocked
- Angry
- Disgusted

owd codger..
you talk about democracy the conserative have no idea what it means .after cameron they voted five
prime ministers in and then they voted them out
because they were all crap, and only the conservatives got a vote nobody else was allowed a vote . your a laughing stock if you think thats democracy. ha ha

Surfer Tom

Can you name the five Prime Ministers?

Sir Piers slowly but surely righting all the Tory cock ups keep them Tories whinging sir kier

In alphabetical order?

Posted by: gaffer (8376) [View gaffer's page]
Surfer Tom
"Can you name the five Prime Ministers?"

I think the tories jettisoned four of them due to incompetence.

Sunak jumped before he was pushed due to the catastrophic landslide defeat in the last election.

posted by surfer tom
"and only the conservatives got a vote nobody else was allowed a vote"

would you expect the conservatives to have a vote for a new labour leader?

Cheshire Puss

Sunak 'jumped' when he called the general election, which was about a year ago now, and he 'jumped' because he had been making 'promises' which he realised could not be fulfilled, spending plans for infrastructure, for which there was no money available, and the impending failure Rwanda plan was probably the final straw which made him go to the country several months earlier than he needed to have done so, so as to not lose 'face' or not to lose as much 'face' as he would have done, if the Rwanda plan had been vetoed by the ECHR.

TTS

Peter Shore

first mate
the conservatve party voted a no confidence vote which went against the prime ministers in power they then voted in small groups who should take over
which turned out to be a farce they ended up
splitting the torys and that started a gap for nigel
farage to jump in it looks like the torys are now no were near getting power again. as for democracy you can flip it to suit what you say
.

First Mate

Judging from the abysmal state of his grammar I doubt he can have a considered view on anything.

In June of last year we all wondered why the Tories called an election when they coulld have stayed in power until October.

We know now!

Our country now being led by a so called Socialist Prime Minister who has ignore the democratic decision of the electorate in the 2016 referendum and made a deal with the EU without any mandate of the electorate and parliament.

Gaffer

I enjoyed that speech, and it will be near as damn it 50yrs since he gave that speech and there was that referendum in 1975, half a century, and when I listen to that speech, I find myself thinking, well what has changed in those 50yrs, apart from the fact that the EEC and then the EU went much further in having sweeping powers over the members of that original 8 countries and another 20 more countries, 29 when we were in it, and he talked about there being 55 million people in Britain in 1975, last year we had 69 million people living in the UK which will by next year be 70 million people, 15 million extra people in this country , it's no wonder that we are in 'Dickie's Meadow'

TTS

Unfortunately there hasn’t been a conservative leader since Mrs Thatcher. Major was more liberal than conservative. Cameron was a liberal although Osborne was a balancing factor. May was a wet through liberal, Boris was a liberal and bone idle with it. Liz Truss wasn’t in charge long enough and Sunak was a liberal.
Between them, apart from Sunak, they dished out visas like there was no tomorrow.
Had Cameron and Osborne stayed in position after the referendum the latter would have made a much better job of managing Covid meaning the UK balance sheet would be have been much stronger. Subsequently had a better candidate for leader emerged the Tories wouldn’t be facing an existential crisis now.

The topic is supposed to be about Starmers EU deal, but like others has drifted into something else!

You started it with the first reply on the topic!

And now you are complaining ( again! ) about topics drifting into something else.

Posted by: Owd Codger (4310)
"I only know that in 2016, a referendum was held and the majority of the electorate made a democratic decision to come out of the European Union!"

What has the above post of yours ^^^^^ got to do with a deal that Starmer made with the EU this week?

Cheshire cat
Cut him a bit of slack he,s at that funny age

“Never let your (Owd) Codpiece dangle in the dust”!

Oh dear, the muppets have ganged up on me!

The country voted for OUT...He has no right to usurp the nations vote. Now he's letting the EU rape our fishing stocks....disgrace.

Billinge Biker

Exactly!

Somebody has to put the Tory cock ups right

Well Labour for sure won't do it...Set of Arsewipes...Nigel will sort em..

Slowly getting there keep up the good work Sir Kier,keep them Tories whinging

Handsomeminer

There's a lot who who voted for him doing plenty of whinging judging by the recent election results and they are anything but Tory!

Surfer tom.As far as the tories changing prime minister without a public vote,what about Gorden Brown taking over from Blair.I don't recall any kerfuffle about that.

I wonder if Rachel from accounts will sell off all our gold reserves to get extra cash as Brown did.

sonlyme
tony blair retired ,there was never a no confidence vote like the consevatives turned on their pm

Sonlyme

Would that be the same Rachel who is alledged to have told porkies on a cv when applying for a financial job?

"tony blair retired ,there was never a no confidence vote"

Wasn't he was forced out by his own MPs?

solyme, is there any gold left to sell off?

Blair was not forced out by his own MP's.

He had signalled his intentions to step down of his own accord nine months previously.

Blair publicly supported Gordon Brown and nominated him to succeed him.

Tony Blair

A Wolf in Sheeps clothing if there ever was one!

Even was a big admirer of the policies of Thatcher and on resigning became one of her yuppie's.

there never was a no confidence vote against tony blair ,the conservatives are split after all the scandal,
we now have gaffer asking artificial intelligence [A I]
then printing the reply on here thinking people will believe what he copies and prints my god

Forced out

It finally came to a head in the summer of 2006 when, despite the prime minister's repeated pledge he would serve a "full third term", he faced a coup to remove him.

The spark this time came when Mr Blair returned from his summer holiday and gave an interview in which he showed little sign of stepping down for two or three years.

The response was swift, a letter from junior ministers and MPs was delivered to Downing Street demanding his resignation, a couple of frontbenchers quit the government and the atmosphere in Westminster reached fever pitch with widespread speculation Mr Blair was about to suffer the same fate as Margaret Thatcher and be forced from office.

No AI was used in the making of this reply.LINK

I saw Tony Blair at the end of his term as P.M., in Barcelona, feathering his own nest, with one of the richest men in the World. Turned out that the bloke he was with, Bernard Arnoult, gave him a job as a director of one of his companies.

From firstmates link

" It was here that a deal was done which would see Mr Brown agreeing to stand aside so Mr Blair could run for the job, apparently after being persuaded that this would give Labour the best chance of winning over the crucial middle England swing voters and so end the then 15 years of Tory government."

"The precise details of that deal have long been contested but it appears to have included a promise that Mr Brown would have unparalleled power over domestic policy as chancellor - and that Mr Blair would step down and hand over power at some future date. "

That agreement to step down was made in in 1994 before he was even elected as party leader^^^^ .

And, no. I'm not a Tony Blair supporter! In fact, quite the opposite.

It is a sad state of affars when in order to get rid of an unpopular Tory government of 15 years, labour had to rely on the vote of discontented "middle england" non Labour and floating voters and not their own policies!

Good edit
I saw you're original post. Sadly, I didn't have the time to reply at the time.

I wish I had now! Hindsight is a good thing. I'm glad you utilised it.

I was not defending anyone. I was just stating facts. It took a couple of hours for you to realise that. But, it registered with you in the end.

Today’s Telegraph

Farmers have said they face losing harvests because crucial agricultural chemicals will be banned under Labour’s deal with the European Union.
The UK will have to ban almost 30 widely used pesticides and fungicides after Sir Keir Starmer committed Britain to following EU laws.
Growers warned that removing them could lead to significant falls in food production, further eroding their already tight profit margins.
A raft of products will have to be taken off shelves, including treatments to prevent potato blight, which threatened crops during last year’s wet winter.
The move will be yet another blow to struggling family farmers already reeling from Rachel Reeves’s inheritance tax raid.
Olly Harrison, a cereal farmer in the North West, said he would have lost his entire potato crop last year had the treatment for potato blight been banned.
“It would be devastating if we had to ban all these products,” he said.
“The UK has taken a more science-led approach since Brexit on pesticides, whereas EU regulation is often based on emotion and green lobbying.
“We need to paddle our own canoe when it comes to food security.”

I thought the pesticides legislation had been withdrawn last year. Mind you, I have noticed a lot of farmers have covered their trees with fine mesh sheets rather than spraying with chemicals. Could be a clue? Have they re-introduced legislation without saying anything?

Agricultural products grown in the UK and exported to the EU already have to adhere to EU standards on pesticide use, and one of the bugbears of exporting to the EU after Brexit was the checks on those agricultural products at the border, with certificates proving that the goods had been produced to EU standards.

So since Brexit has that meant that UK farmers have the ability to use pesticides on British agricultural products for use in the UK, which do not conform to EU ?

If so, how far have those UK pesticide rules diverged from the EU rules ?

Then there is this LINK

This UK-EU deal doing away with the border checks on goods entering and leaving the UK from the EU is a big thing, and it will work for the EU countries too, those which export agricultural and fresh foodstuffs etc into the UK, because upon Brexit, the border checks became reciprocal, EU countries have all the paperwork to fill in, just like we do, to send their goods here to the UK, and it affects millions of tons of products, and many 1000's of lorry movements between the UK and EU, and the deal will fully restore the UK land bridge between the EU and Ireland.

So why have the EU done this now, because we asked for this sort of thing during the Brexit negotiations, and the EU said NO, that would be 'Cherry Picking' the EU for the best bits of being in the EU, without having the naff bits of the EU, and the only way we could do that, would be for us to remain in the EU, Customs Union, which would have effectively kept us in the EU.

I think that they have done this now, because the EU want us as part of a EU Defence Pact LINK LINK

Because we are the most militarily powerful country in Europe, after Russia, and the EU wants us to protect them, because on the Eastern flank of the EU, there are several countries which have a border with Russia, the Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, and the old Warsaw Pact countries, which are now in the EU and NATO, such as Poland, they are worried about the threat from Russia, I mean ourselves in this country, I don't think we give a toss about being invaded by Russia, because they would have to get across the continent of Europe to get here, but if you live in Finland, you might have a different attitude to ours.

But overall, lets face it, because by the back door, it is a 'YES', in that Kier Starmer as dragged us back into the EU.

He's not 'dragged us back into it'. In fact, he can't. But, there are certain rules that have to be adhered to if we want the Eu to trade with us.
Don't forget, we won't allow chlorine-treated chicken or hormone-injected beef from the USA.

Posted by: gaffer (8381) [View gaffer's page]
"Today’s Telegraph
Farmers have said they face losing harvests because crucial agricultural chemicals will be banned under Labour’s deal with the European Union."

We lost harvests when we left the EU because there were no personel to pick them!

sunak jumped before he was pushed cause he promised and did not deliver such promises.There is not a PM in living memory nor indeed history who has made so many promises before he was elected and failed miserably to furfill such utterings, than the present encumbent of downing street, than the former useless civil servant starmer.
university and then into politics as a first job does not bode well for the unfortunate inhabitants of these marvellous islands

"We lost harvests when we left the EU because thre was no personal to pick them!"

Anything to do with the personal realising that instead of being paid the minimum wage or less, they could be paid like many others as much if not more for sitting at home on their back sides rather than bending their backs in a field?

At exactly the same time that we left the EU in 2020, the Covid Pandemic struck, and in the ensuing woes that followed, the Remainers blamed Brexit and the Leavers blamed Covid.

In this last week since Starmer took us back into the EU, and just remember that from now on, we will be hearing the old excuses of folk saying "we can't do that because of EU regulations" which we had left behind some five years ago, and OK I might be 'jumping the gun' by saying we have been dragged back into the EU, but in the coming weeks and months how many more of these EU regulations will be being 'surreptitiously' introduced into British law via this new deal with the EU ?

So that's me having a whinge about it, 'BUT' like it or loath it, will we now be better off in this country with that new deal, or will we be worse off, or just the same, I personally think that we will be a lot better off with it, but that doesn't mean that I want this country to rejoin the EU.

If any government of our country beleives that the majority of it's people want to re-enter the European Union, they should have the confidence to hold another referendum and let the people decide and not be doing it by the back door method of doing individual deals here and there.

We have got a long way to go to catch up with countries like Switzerland where democracy is concerned!

Owd Codger

As a measure of public opinion as to whether there is widespread regret at us leaving the EU, then you only have to look at places like this message board on Wigan World, to see that there is still widespread opposition to us being in the EU, with as I am aware only one member on this forum who voted 'Leave' in 2016, but wishes that he had not voted to leave the EU, the 'Remainers' are still there, but I don't see many new 'Remainers' in the country, the same strength of opposition to being in the EU seems to be being expressed throughout the country, so if another referendum was held tomorrow on us rejoining the EU, I think that there would be a resounding 'NO' to the idea.

But taking the carrot and stick approach, the EU have dangled a big carrot in front of us, a nice juicy carrot, with lots more carrots to come, but six years ago when Boris was negotiationg the withdrawal agreement with the EU, it was all 'stick' from the EU because they did not like us for leaving their club, but they had to do a deal with the UK to safeguard the UK-EU trade, because it was important to businesses operating within the EU.

But things have changed now with the threat from Russia and Trump signaling that America may not be interested in defending Europe as part of the NATO alliance, so to the EU, the UK has now become a much sought after defence ally, hence us joining the EU defence pact, in return for them giving us lots of carrots

"the deal be it good or bad is betrayal of the democratic decision of the people in 2016 who did not give any government of our country a mandate to do any deals with the European Union"

Utter Tosh! (whatever that means, but I've heard it somewhere!)

owd codger
says the people of the country in 2016 did not gave the goverment any mandate to do deals with the
european union, what are you talking about we never stopped dealing with them . that was the point of it
the consevative goverment tried to get a betterr deal but failed miserably thats why labour is trying to get brexit done

Seeing that it has upset a couple of the supporters of the deal, I will with draw the bit about a mandate but the fact remains that if any government wants to take us back into the European Union. it should be done by a referendum of the people.

But I supposed they do not agree with that a well!

Posted by: Owd Codger (4345)
"Seeing that it has upset a couple of the supporters of the deal, I will with draw the bit about a mandate"

You have withdrawn it because you were talking total tripe, again
At least you realised ( eventually when it was pointed out to you! ) that you were talking utter tripe!

tonker,
owd codgers statement above proves he had no idea
what he voted for. after all the trouble the brexit vote caused he wants another and all the trouble that comes with it .

Everyone is entitled to give an opinion even if the opinion is considered to be wrong by those who come on Wigan World and support a certain political party.

They should be more concerned about the way their party making a mess of everything at both local level in Wigan and national level in the country!

I agree.
Everyone is entitled to give an opinion

But you didn't give an opinion. You came out with an idiotic statement. Thats why you deleted it.

Throw a bit of grain into a field and the sheep always come and eat it!

It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.'

Mark Twain

The black sheep of the EU, Viktor Orban, the Hungarian PM, has allowed the Chinese car manufacturing giant BYD to set up its European HQ in Hungary. It allows them to escape the 17% EU tariffs on Chinese cars.
It is seen as an existential threat to the French and German car industries.
The EU is currently considering a minimum price for imported Chinese cars to prevent the Chinese government offering subsidies to offset the 17% tariff.

Chinese car manufacturing giant BYD to set up its European HQ in Hungary.
This will be good news for anybody who wants a brand-new cheap, well-made Chinese car that doesn't break down as much as those European ones.

"A lion doesn't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep"

Alexander the Great.

or even a cheshire cat from a childrens story