I found out today that,

I'm a genius.
I was listnin' to the radio 2 today and they was talking about Maths education and this lady had tried for many years to get a 'O' level in maths and failed every time and said, " I can add up and take away but when it comes to , working out the hypotenuse of a right angle triangle, I just don't get it "
I had a little giggle to myself because, I left skool at 15, without any certs but, can still remember the formula for that , The square of the hypotenuse is equal to the sum of the square to the square to the other two sides,
I should sue the educational system for not seeing the harm they did to me,,,

Maths was a complete mystery to me when at school. Oh I could do the additions, subtractions, divisions, and even some mental arithmetic; but, when it came to trigonometry , algebra and other forms of maths, that was me - done. Never understood the point of it as I knew it would never be needed for the average school kid to know.

Its the lottery of life Mollie. If they had discovered my genius quality, I would have been forced to have a higher standard with higher bills, stress and maw't deauth with posh nobs wanting their toilets fixing for nothing,
In hindsight, They done me a favour,
I withdraw my compensation claim to the education board

Maths has never been my strong point, and still isn't.

I wish I had studied trigonometry when I was an average school kid. Others did, I didn't.

A qualification in trigonometry is worth its weight in gold.
Ask any astronaut, pilot, surveyor, architect, surgeon, doctor, etc.

I was at my sons house over the week end and my eldest grandson was doing his maths homework on his computer which involved using his calculator to do the maths. In my last year in school I had to learn Metric as well as Imperial measures/weights so had to use extra brain cells to take it on board

Schoolchildren are no longer taught to use the thing in their head called a brain as a result of being allowed to use calculators, computers, smart phones etc!

Someone on the radio ..(a teacher) said that some children just starting school when given a book,they kept swiping it up and down…it’s oh so easy for some mums..just keep giving them an iPad or mobile.

In maths at Wigan Grammar School we were given a tip to remember the basic trig functions of a right angled triangle.
For cosine, base over hypotenuse remembered as the cost of a boarding house.
For sin, perpendicular over hypotenuse remembered as the sign of public house.
For tangent, perpendicular over base remembered as the tanning of a poor boy.

I'm a maths dyslexic....can't grasp numbers at all...had an evil teacher at junior school who made me stand up and try to do times tables...obviously for the fun of others.. Never forgot her...in my teens I egged all her windows (bad lad)...didn't hold me back ..two good careers and 3 pensions ..

Posted by: cheshirecat (1531) View cheshirecat's page

"Maths has never been my strong point, and still isn't.

I wish I had studied trigonometry when I was an average school kid. Others did, I didn't.

A qualification in trigonometry is worth its weight in gold.
Ask any astronaut, pilot, surveyor, architect, surgeon, doctor, etc."

Well, I never aspired to becoming any of those professions anyway.

they taught properly in the fifties and sixties.They stuck in your head the theorum of pythagorus.circumference of a circle pi diameter.area of said circle pi r squared etc.If you couldn't repeat it in class a handy crack across the back of the head was a timely reminder

Thing is, not everybody's brain works in the same way. My skills were in English - composition, comprehension, spelling, punctuation, which I found easy - but sums were totally beyond me apart from what I've already mentioned. Oddly enough though, I was fairly good at chemistry and physics, which demands a certain amount of maths. Other folk may find, or found, English a very hard subject, which it is in many ways, so I would never deride anyone whose spelling etc isn't top drawer. I only draw the line at text speak in a place such as this.

I was decent in all other subjects, but sums? Nah, but, nah!

At Parkside Colliery, everything was done in excess.
They needed to install new compressed-air pipes in the shaft, about 800 metres of them, very heavy, attached to the wall of the shaft by bolts.
Normally, they would use 1" diameter steel bolts. But, this time, they got an 'outside firm' in to oversee the job. The highly qualified university graduate said, "oooohhhh, no, the bolts don't need to be anything like so big, we only need 10mm bolts"!
You see, he was a highly qualified university graduate so, it went without saying, he knew best. He'd obviously done some of them there calc-yoo-lay-shuns, using trigonometry and calculus. But he might've looked on a pre-calculated chart for quickness. Whatever ......... they got half-way down and the whole job gave way, The 10mm bolts had snapped because they weren't thick enough and nor were they close enough together.
Pit stopped, £millions of damage.
For me, that highly qualified university graduate engineer should've multiplied the result of his calculation by two for good measure. If he had, it wouldn't have happened!

In my experience of practical work, calculations, trigonometry was not needed, those are for desk jockys , We planned it out on the floor with chalk , If you need to know a circumference, run your tape measure round the pipe, If you need to know the volume, use the biggest pipe and if the flow is good, swell, if it aint, get bigger pipe, Trial and error is the way of craftsmen,

Two very good reasons why higher maths, and University degrees, can either be a godsend, or they can be lethal without "on the job" knowledge. It's all well and good if you know the theory, but practicality is the evidence needed to ensure a job well done, and safely.

I don't know if this is the same thing or not, but I've known people, some just ordinary folk, and some who's made it their profession, would buy wallpaper for their rooms by using algebra. When I wallpapered, I'd look at the walls, allow for matching up and the length of drops etc and, nine times out of ten, I'd get the right amount of paper.

At school I thought maths was just a paper exercise, I was never really shown a practical use for it. When I was about 14 I started helping my Dad on some jobs, he was a bricklayer, he showed me how to use Pythagoras Theorem to form right angles and set out buildings, and how to work out volumes and areas to calculate materials. That was the first time I realised that maths were useful. Later on doing a mining course at Tech, I thought Trigonometry, Algebra, and Science, were were never going to be any use to me. Then as part of my practical training I had to work in surveying, and mine ventilation, and again saw how these subjects had a practical application. I reckon if you show somebody how these subjects can be used practically, then they are more likely to try to understand them. Otherwise it's just a chore trying to learn them.

You've just reminded me of time when, living with my parents and they wanted the stairs, hallway and landing repapered, they chose the paper and wanted to do the project by them selves but, could not do the long drops from the hallway to the top of the landing, So I volunteered to do the long drops, There were only 2 long drops so I called in to do them between my other work, I hung them straight and level and left them to match the rest up to the pattern ,
Well I got a call when I got home from an irate parent telling me, The pattern was upside down, ( gulp), I never looked at the pattern I just rolled the wallpaper out as it came, not knowing that, sometimes the paper can be rolled up in reverse

Mollie, what you explain there is using algebra to find out how much wallpaper you need!

Is it? Well, I must be a genius as well then.

What I actually meant though was, that these people worked it out on paper with those funny symbols, whilst I just used me brains with a spot of logic thrown in, such as they are.

Did anyone understand logaphams ?

Wot are logaphams? I've heard of logarithms, but I'm blowed if I know what they are.

My gift of dylexia is hidden in many genius folks

Sorry, Tom. I just thought yours was something I'd never heard of.

Going slightly off track, but shows that experience over qualifications makes a big difference; this reminds me of something I witnessed many years ago when we were living in Soest, West Germany.

A new 2nd Lieutenant was posted to our barracks and he decided he wanted to take the parade with some men from my husband’s department, and armed with rifles (empty of course). The 2Lt was also carrying an SLR and at one point, he stopped and lowered his weapon as his arm was tired. Poor baby! My husband, who was taking the parade with him said: “Can’t do that sir!” “Why not Sergeant Major, Do what? What’s the problem?” “Well sir,” says hubby: “If that rifle you're holding now were to be loaded sir, and you accidentally discharged it sir, you’d more than likely put a 7.62 mm bullet through L/Cpl Smith’s foot - SAH! NOW BLOODY WELL PUT IT OVER YOUR SHOULDER, NOW, SAH!”

The 2Lt was about 22 years old and straight out of Sandhurst with a plum in his mouth attempting to lead soldiers who had been in the Army 15 and 22 years! Oh, he’d passed his exams to become an Officer, but that was it. The rest of the men were trying their best to keep their faces straight. He’d had no “on the job” training as such, so was like a duck out of water!

When I started down the pit I did at 1st one week at college then 3 weeks on the job. In my last 2 years of my training I did 2 days a week at college and the rest of the time down the pit this way learning the practicable side of the jobs. There were other men who went to college full time then went onto university full time. They only came to the pit to do their face training and their training to become an official. We used to call these men Text book engineers who learned the theory of the job but had no idea how to do a job

mollie m
the logarithm of a number is the power by which the base number is raised to give that number.
eg log of100 to base 10 is 2

The slide rule, a wonderful invention, is based on logarithms. I’ve still got the one I used throughout my mechanical engineering studies. It was made by British Thornton at their Wythenshawe factory.

I loved Trigonometry at school. For example We were given a question i.e a plane flies at 500mph on a course 256 degs north west for 3 1/2 hours then changes course to 200 degs south west for 1 1/2 hours how far would it have traveled from its starting point. If I remember it involved making triangles from the planes course and then using Napier log tables. (I think I still have mine somewhere???) to work out the answer. This may be completelty wrong It is 65 years ago<g> As for Calculus I could never get my head around it..

In calculus, you start with no numbers and finish with an answer that is right because you say it is.
Logical, innit!

PS: Admin., was that 500mph airspeed or groundspeed?

Oh heck. I wish I'd kept me trap shut now! I suppose if it's something you have to learn for your job, then that's where your head has to be.

Peter, that's what our trainees have to do. One week in College, three at work learning under Approved Electricians or Supervisors. Not sure how long that has to take, but I think it's at least three years before they're considered qualified enough to be upgraded to Electrician.

Did anybody have a go at Admin's question? It's been a fair while since I answered one of these, but I came up with 1075.9 miles.

Tuddy, all the words blurred into one for me! He might as well have been speaking Klingon!

Earlier on when I went to Tesco Express, I was told that the electrics had been off for four hours, but an engineer had come and within three hours he got the power restored.

I laughed my head off. I told them that their consumer board had been tripped by something, so I gave them a quick course to let them know how to reinstate their system if it happened again, which it will if there's a faulty appliance - and I'm not an electrical engineer - but they were being ripped off (three hours, plus evening call-out charge, plus travelling time), as it was a two minute job at the most!

They no longer teach lads basic skills like woodwork or the girls cookery which are needed in everyday life with the result that many lads have not got a clue about even mending things around the house, while the girls when out shopping, buying microwave meals or call at a takeaway on the way home.

Irrespective of the number of GCSE's and A levels they get, you only have to watch the quiz shows to see what they have not been taught in today's education system.

Mollie, I hope you got double points on your clubcard for that!

Tuddy, did you use spherical trigonometry to do Admin's calculation? I had to guess at what he meant with the angles (as they don't correspond with commonly used cardinal points generally inluded in great circle calculations) but came up with 1480.71 miles!
One way or another, I wouldn't want to walk it with a stone in my shoe!


PS: Did somebody mention Part 'P'?

Tonker, I used the cosine rule, or at least I think I did. If I remember rightly that's the formula to use when you know two sides and one angle of a triangle. I came up with an angle of 160 degrees between the two sides as he changed course at that point by 200 degrees, 360 - 200 = 160. we'll split the difference if you like, and call it 1200 miles. Chris Southworth will know how to do it if he still posts on here.

First, we'll calculate the distance covered in each leg of the journey:

First leg:

Speed: 500 mph

Time: 3.5 hours

Distance = Speed x Time = 500 mph x 3.5 hours = 1750 miles

Second leg:

Speed: 500 mph

Time: 1.5 hours

Distance = Speed x Time = 500 mph x 1.5 hours = 750 miles

Next, we'll find the coordinates of the plane at the end of each leg. We can use trigonometry for this since the distances and directions form a right-angled triangle.

Coordinates of the End of the First Leg
Angle = 256 degrees (measured clockwise from north)

Distance = 1750 miles

Change in East (x-coordinate) = 1750 miles x cos(256 degrees)

Change in North (y-coordinate) = 1750 miles x sin(256 degrees)

Coordinates of the End of the Second Leg
Starting from the endpoint of the first leg

Angle = 200 degrees (measured clockwise from north)

Distance = 750 miles

Change in East (x-coordinate) = 750 miles x cos(200 degrees)

Change in North (y-coordinate) = 750 miles x sin(200 degrees)

Total Displacement from Starting Point
Combine the x and y components of both legs to get the total displacement in the east and north directions:

Total East = (1750 miles x cos(256 degrees)) + (750 miles x cos(200 degrees))

Total North = (1750 miles x sin(256 degrees)) + (750 miles x sin(200 degrees))

Calculate the total distance from the starting point using the Pythagorean theorem:

Distance = sqrt((Total East)^2 + (Total North)^2)

Getting the Result
Calculating all the above steps:

Change in East (First Leg): 1750 miles x cos(256 degrees) -1454.2 miles

Change in North (First Leg): 1750 miles x sin(256 degrees) = -1039.7 miles

Change in East (Second Leg): 750 miles x cos(200 degrees) = -704.4 miles

Change in North (Second Leg): 750 miles x sin(200 degrees) = -257.7 miles

Total East: -1454.2 miles + (-704.4 miles) = -2158.6 miles

Total North: -1039.7 miles + (-257.7 miles) = -1297.4 miles

Total Distance:

Distance = sqrt((-2158.6 miles)^2 + (-1297.4 miles)^2) = 2528.1 miles

So, the plane would have traveled approximately 2528.1 miles from its starting point.

Some clever stuff going on here, but I'm losing the will to live!

Tuddy: No, I didn't get any extra on me club card, but I did say to always get an electrician in anyway in case a rat had chewed through a cable, so re-energising themselves could be dangerous.

Tonker: Shaaaaadaaaap!

APLS, no. Basic trig can't be used as a triangle doesn't exist on the Earth, as it's spherical. Tha' sees!
You'll have to use spherical trig. It's a bit more complex.
Best thing to do is use calculus. Then you can come up with any answer as long as it's not a number and everybody has to believe you're right. And clever!

There's a funny smell round here at the moment and, I've tranglulated a sample and put through the googleometer and, the result was found to be




Bull Shit

Well this is getting interesting, but I think we're over complicating things. Admin said it was a problem he was given at school, so I don't think he would have been expected to use spherical trigonometry, which is a bit of a specialised branch of maths. From the question we have one side of a triangle 1750 miles long, and another side 750 miles long with an internal angle between them of 160 degrees. We want to find the length of the third side of the triangle in order to find the distance from the starting point. We know the lengths of two sides, and the value of one angle, so we can use the cosine law to find the length of the third side. I think!

Let's call it metres instead of miles and pretend we're tunnelling, 800 metres below ground, rather than flying round the World. That takes away the curvature of the Earth and makes it easier!

PS: I've just seen Chris Southworth on Faceache, falling out with someone from Manchester University about biological wildlife or summat!


PPS: Q: "a plane flies at 500mph on a course 256 degs north west for 3 1/2 hours then changes course to 200 degs south west for 1 1/2 hours how far would it have traveled from its starting point."?

A: it would've 'travelled' 2500 miles. Obviously!!