Question for tomplum

tom, do you have any experience of these?

Something we had discussed in the past. I have been living in the servant's quarters whilst renovating rest of house. The kitchen and bathroom here are so remote from the main kitchen and bathroom, that there will be a long wait for hot water unless I arrange for a separate local supply. My preference would be fitting a gas multipoint water heater in the location. I could fit the 'Ariston' myself rather than need a gas safe bod to do the work, which simplifies scheduling of tasks. It is to replace open header tank and cylinder with immersion heater.

Have preference for gas, and currently it is cheaper, but I have read a number of times of late, that gas will be more expensive than electricity in the very near future.

Yes, they are good for small industrial units, garages , granny flats and such like because of the reasons you mentioned, A normal plumber/handyman can fit them legally but, depending on the situation, you might need a sparky to wire and test it,

Cheers, thanks tom.

you're welcome Ena,

Why not choose an electric multipoint water heater?

My choice would be one of these under the sink,
undersink heater They also require no specialist certification and because of the cost could be fitted at several sinks, the hot water travelling from the multipoint to the other sinks would loose heat and water wastage on the journey,

Yes. I am considering something similar for the kitchen sink. The 80 Litre 'Ariston' linked, I thought better for bathroom, as it should provide sufficient hot water for shower. It would also slot in to replace current header tank and cylinder: i.e. can utilise existing plumbing and electrical feed.

They never fit exactly. Instant hot water is more economical and efficient than heating and storing 80 litres.
And, you don't need 80 litres for a shower!

But, they do need a special cable wired from the consumer unit,

Special?

Special!

I'm guessing that my mentioning a special cable to feed the water heater , prompted a reaction from one of our Sent hellins Micky Mouse 3 month course Engineers to point out my bad description, Ok ,,,
Did he offer any positive advice ????

quick to teckintpiss, slow to give us any knowledge from his fast track course in, how to wire a plug,,

Tom,
Just a bit of advice if you don’t mind. We are just getting quotes to replace all the Poly B piping in our house. This was used a lot in the 70’s onwards but banned in the late 90’s because it was prone to developing leaks. Any experience of it? I know a friend who replaced it and needed 18 repairs on the walls and ceilings.

Being an old skool plumber I avoided it like the plague But, ALL new builds are plastic pipes now, There are 2 main manufacturers in England, John Guest and Hep20,
John Guest gives a 25 year guarantee and Hep20 gives a 50 year guarantee, So I did use it at times and, Its good, easy to work with and it has good insulation qualities and is less noisy but, Its ugly to see on the surface, Its also prone to vermin attack, rats and mice chew it,
In my home I would not like it But, times move on,
I hope this helps you Bill,

I plumbed my house in Spain with 'plastic pipe' and Speedfit connections. It was a piece of piss! and only took a couple of days. I wonder if that pipe was PolyB? It is grey, but I was told it was "good stuff, for underfloor heating"!
Like Tom says, you can't beat copper tube. I've seen a whole new house flooded in Westhoughton because the plumber had missed an insert on a joint and it had 'blown off' under pressure.

Thanks Tom and Tonker. I doubt the replacement pipe will be copper so I will see what he offers. Mine won’t be a mega job because my basement is undeveloped so all the piping is exposed. I had both bathrooms renovated last year so they will be up to code.

For the Benefit of most people in England who don't know how a Canadian house is built,
they first dig the basement out, Its the full size of the house footprint and concrete it so, its like a empty swimming pool about 2.5 metres deep , then they put the floor in which covers it, Then they built the house, When the house is finished, its up to the buyer to develop the basement into, A games room/branny flat / man cave /garage or just storage room, They are massive, I remember when my youngest grandchild first came to visit us and asked,,," hey grandpa, why are all the houses joined up here ?",,,from the mouth of babe's

Just as you say Tom. Ours is around a thousand square feet. I haven’t measured the height but I stand the 7’6” Christmas tree in the corner when not in use and it is shy of the ceiling. Some basements are developed very elaborately. Gyms, bars, bedrooms, bathrooms etc.

A basement is just a posher word for a cellar.
So I would assume they are no different to our way of building?

Posted by: tomplum (10038) View tomplum's page

I'm guessing that my mentioning a special cable to feed the water heater , prompted a reaction from one of our Sent hellins Micky Mouse 3 month course Engineers to point out my bad description, Ok ,,,
Did he offer any positive advice ????

quick to teckintpiss, slow to give us any knowledge from his fast track course in, how to wire a plug,,

Replied: 7th Dec 2022 at 23:30

I would expect any qualified electrician worth his salt, wouldn't be handing out advice on a public forum. Messing with electricity is for professionals, not the man in the street.

Is he still ignoring us?

It really is difficult to say.

I am curious to know what a ‘special’ cable actually is???

Do you mean….dedicated circuit Tom?

Dross bro's dropped in I see,

They say anything of interest at all ????


thought not, dross r us dot blige,dot uk.

They say anything of interest at all ????

Log out tom then you'll be able to see what's posted as a guest.

Ignoring or not ignoring?????


I really do wish you would make your mind up Tom.

It wouldn't need any 'special' cable. You could simply 'plug it in' to the nearest socket!

2kw?? Hmmmmm......maybe maybe not. I can understand you diving in without stopping to ask questions and telling everyone its perfectly fine but me........ I would be asking a few questions first.

Appendix 15

1500 Watts at 230 Volts only creates 6.5 Amps.
Less than an iron or a hairdrier?

Shouldnt you be asking what else may be running off the same circuit as the `nearest socket` and for how long?

Appendix 15...remember??

Crack on cowboy

How many people, you know, enquire or visibly check what else is runnng off the circuit before they plug in their iron, or hairdrier, kettle or toaster?
A ring-main will easily cope with it!

PS. If we were talking about a 9.5Kw or 10 Kw shower unit, I'd be running a 10nn individual feed to it. But 1.5Kw?

Ring ring, ring ring

Hello?
Is that Mr Tonkerington Smyth? World class professional electrician and general know it all?
Yes....its about the 1.5kw water heater, the one you said would be fine to plug into the nearest socket.
Well I plugged it into the nearest socket like you said but every time I turn it on something under the stairs goes pop and my telly and everything else goes off.
Gladys`s husband has been round and he says the 32A ring is right on its limit and it should have been checked first. He says there is already about 7.3kw on it and the extra 1.5kw from the heater is overloading it. I am an old lady and don't know about these things and I thought you did. Why didn't you check this or tell me it might happen first? Can you come back and fix it please?..........Would it have been better to use a `special` cable?

I can't see the dross and, don't want to read it because dross is called dross because its dross but, I see a qualified electrician posting who, Is so named because he was trained by a highly regarded company who wanted MEN who could walk the walk, Pen pushing, desk jockeys who have a drawer full of certs would kak their pants if they had to build a house or do a practical job,
Thee tell um Tonks,

ps, tell um a joke or two as well, lighten their misery up a bit,,,

can't see the dross and, don't want to read it***














*****...........but I am still going to reply to it.

Reet Tom

I'm sure if sledge's reply was interesting someone will say so but, I won't hold my breath because, Its probably Dross,

you know like when you're on a bus or confined space and a toddler has a dicky fit, You want to tell it to shut up but, Its now against the law to do so,

sledge is that toddler screaming cos his mum won't let him have the iphone,,,,

I am still in there Tom, living rent free.

Despite all the talk you just cant do it can you

What larks indeed

Mid-morning on a busy building site ......

The Site Manager was managing the site,
the roofers were roofing,
the plasterers were plastering,
the bricklayers were bricklaying,
the joiners were joinering,
the plumbers were plumbing,
the painters were painting,
the flaggers were flagging,
the kerbers were kerbing and the snaggers were snagging.

What were the electricians doing?

Talking b***sh**?

Tonker its poets day tomorrow they will all be in the pub come dinner time

Maybe Tom would would be willing to pop round with his ten bob multimeter to megger the voltage.

Ask him nicely and he might bring a length of `special` cable too

Someone tell me if I've got this wrong but, This question/post was directed to me from a respected proven engineer who needed some advice from a trusted and honest tradesman, No one invited the opinions of 3 month chancers and recognised
'know nowts' for an input,
Of course now they are going to say in their repetitive manner,
" I thought he was ignoring us " I am , So I don't know what you've written but, I'm assuming is summut like,
" in know better than Tom, why did't you ask me ?

In the name of the father , son and holy ghost, now pitch up thee tent and shove off,

As an honest and trusted tradesman Tom..............can you tell us more about this `special cable

Diversity factor.

Good point, in a new installation, Retep.

Not much good in a house that hasn't been re wired for about 50 years.
Perhaps Tom could explain.

Your correct LL.Regs are difficult to understand and interpret and can be confusing even for electricians.

Tom:
Oh bugger, I dropped my multimeter and now it doesn’t work.

Graduate electrical engineer:
Was it a fluke?

Tom:
Yeah, I tripped over a piece of that ‘special’ cable and t’bloody thing slipped clean out of my hand onto t’deck.

Your earth-point is wandering again!