Mason's Back Houses

Just got this email can anyone help?

Hello, and greetings from London, Ontario, Canada! I had attempted to register in order to post a message on the places board of WiganWord.co.uk, but the server seems to be having problems, so when I found your addresses on the “contact us” portion of the site, I thought perhaps that might do almost as well. Here’s my question:

My Great-grandmother (Ann Howell, daughter of Henry Howell and Sophia (Butler) was born in Wigan on 30 March, 1874. Her birth registration says the family lived at “3 Mason’s back houses” and another document says “3 back Mason’s Houses” — Henry was a miner so I’m certain the residence wasn’t palatial and likely as not is no longer standing, but I was curious to know where the houses stood, so that I might seek out the location when I someday make my way to the area, as my research has turned up a few cousins who still live in Wigan.

Ron, information below is for your correspondent.

I have found a reference to Masons Houses in Horwich, but not in Wigan. I wonder if it's the name of the builder, or owner rather than the street name?

All Saints is the Parish Church of Wigan, and Spring Gardens still exists today and is maybe a 10 minute walk away, but very central to Wigan.

I have had a look at a couple of old maps, but haven't found a Masons, or back Masons Houses.

Although Spring Gardens still exists today, though I don't think the houses are from 1874

Present day map. Wigan Parish Church is on the far right, marked with pin. Spring Gardens is on far left. HTH

back to backs were very common in Wigan in the mid to late 1800's they consisted of two rooms at the front and two rooms at the back entirely seperate. Each "house" usually had two windows and a front door but no other access...Great George Street off Miry Lane had lots of these types of houses..

Have you heard of Masons Houses Gemfree?

There is a Mason St off Miry Lane Gemfree. All units now but I would hazard a guess that there were back to back houses there.

What we need is a local expert.

been checking census returns, 1881 this family were in Margaret Street...worth checking if this street has any plaques on the terraces which say " Masons Houses"

Margaret St Spring View Gemfree?

thats what I found

Ah then in that case, I don't think there was a plaque. A lot of my relatives lived there before it was demolished. I visited regularly as a child/ young adult. Nothing comes to mind.

Father and son were iron forge workers from Wolverhampton. Probably worked at Ince Forge.

1907 map of Mason Street.

On the 1907/ 1909 map there's a Margaret Street shown just off Frog Lane. also a Foundry

Just found this, Mason's Houses, not the family being sought, but it gives the address as Forge Street.



Ellen Travena - [Child] of Thomas Travena & Mary Ann Born: 7 Jul 1879 ...... Abode: Mason's Houses Forge Street

More info.from our Colonial Cousin
Thank you! The property is listed as being in “Spring View, Lower Ince”

Hi Gem thanks for the research and information It would appear that MASONS HOUSES were in Margaret street as Lower Ince was the location,. I'll be going to Lower Ince tomorrow so I'll check if there is a group of houses called MASONS HOUSES Probably the builder was named MASON?

Margaret St Spring View Lower Ince was demolished years ago.Early 1970s. A new estate has been built since. I have just spoken to someone who was born and brought up on Margaret St and he has no recollection of "Masons Houses" One of my aunts and grandmother lived at Number 10 the other lived at I think was 11

Hi thanks for the info. I'm certain that No 3 Masons Back Houses was No.3 Margaret street

Well how strange is that. The chap that I have again spoken to lived at wait for it Number 3. He was born there and lived there till 1968. He has said he has never heard the term Masons Back houses.

Ummmm the plot thickens...

1927 map of Margaret Street, Spring View.

On the 1881 census, there is no Ann, but there is a Florence A Howell aged 7, which would be right for a birth in 1874

Henry Howell
England and Wales Census, 1881
Name Henry Howell
Event Type Census
Event Date 1881
Event Place Ince In Makerfield, Lancashire, England
Registration District Wigan
Residence Note Margaret Rd
Gender Male
Age 42
Marital Status (Original) Married
Occupation Iron Forge Worker
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Birth Year (Estimated) 1839
Birthplace Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England
Page Number 30
Registration Number RG11
Piece/Folio 3775/119
Affiliate Record Type Household
HOUSEHOLD

ROLE

GENDER

AGE

BIRTHPLACE

Henry Howell Head M 42 Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England
Sophia Howell Wife F 38 Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England
James Howell Son M 18 Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England
Lucy M Howell Daughter F 15 Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England
Sophia A Howell Daughter F 12 Manchester, Lancashire, England
Jno Thos Howell Son M 9 Manchester, Lancashire, England
Florence A Howell Daughter F 7 Wigan, Lancashire, England
Isaac Howell Son M 3 M Wigan, Lancashire, England

They could have come from Wolverhampton with my Grandfather who also moved from Wolverhampton to find work in Wigan. Seems a big coincidence both moved from Wolverhampton to the same Street.

This looks like the family in 1861 census in Wolverhampton eront, York Street anywhere near your grandfather?

Henry Howell
England and Wales Census, 1861
Name Henry Howell
County Staffordshire
Event Type Census
Event Date 1861
Event Place Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England
Ecclesiastical Parish St Georges
Registration District Wolverhampton
Residence Note York Street
Gender Male
Age 22
Marital Status Married
Occupation Forgeman
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Birth Year (Estimated) 1839
Birthplace Wolverhampton, Staffordshire
Page Number 17
Registration Number RG09
Piece/Folio 1995 / 50
Affiliate Record Type Household
HOUSEHOLD

ROLE

GENDER

AGE

BIRTHPLACE

Henry Howell Head M 22 Wolverhampton, Staffordshire
Sophia Howell Wife F 19 Wolverhampton, Staffordshire
Hannah Howell Daughter F 1 Wolverhampton, Staffordshire
CITING THIS RECORD

Latest email received today.

Thanks once again to you and your membership for their stellar efforts! Since I’m unable to comment directly on the posts, I wanted to provide what input I can regarding what I’ve read so far.

I was particularly intrigued by the connect user “erontquay” whose Grandfather also came from Wolverhampton to Wigan in search of work. As such, here’s what I can tell you all about my Howells and their addresses in the area. It’s probably more than anyone really needs to know, but perhaps some of the details specific to Wigan might be helpful:

Henry Howell was born 24 July 1838 in Townwell Fold, Wolverhampton to John Howell and John’s 2nd wife Mary Challenger. At age 13 he resided with his parents at 34 Old Mile St. and worked as a hinge caster alongside his younger brother John. He married Sophia Butler on 15 February 1858 at the Parish Church, Shelton, Staffordshire. Census records indicate the couple would go on to have 17 children, the names of which 15 are known.

Whilst in Wolverhampton the couple resided at Graisley Row (Oct 1858), Mill Street (Nov 1858), Merridale Street (Feb 1860), 21 York Street (1861), and Philip Street (1863). From 1858 onwards, Henry’s employment was listed variously as Forgeman or Puddler.

At some point between 1867 and May 1868 the family moved to Manchester, where at least two children were born — I’ve yet to find any documentary evidence as to where the family lived in Manchester, apart from Census records which state which children were born there. The family moved to Wigan prior to February of 1873. Seven children were born to the couple whilst in Wigan. Although the couple already had a daughter Ann Maria, born 1860, who lived well into adulthood, my Great grandmother Florence Ann (born 30 March 1874) was registered at birth as Ann, though she appears Census schedules (such as the 1881 census) as Florence A Howell.

Whilst in Wigan the Howell family resided at 3 Back Mason's Houses, Spring View, Lower Ince (1873, 1874) . The Burial records of three children interred in the Ince Cemetery (1873, 76, 78) list the family’s address as Warrington Road. Birth and death registrations (Jul 1879, Feb 1880) provide an address of Moss View, Lower Ince and records from Dec 1880 list the family address as Margaret Street, Spring View, Lower Ince, with the 1881 Census giving the house number as 11. As of September 1883, the family resided at 302 Ince Green Lane, Lower Ince.

From what I can gather, changes in the method used to smelt pig iron made puddlers obsolete by the mid 1880’s and by 1901 (if not before, I can;t find them in the 1891 Census) the Howell family had moved on to London, where Henry eventually found work as a Stone Paivor. Henry died 17 Feb 1923 in London; Sophia predeceased him on 21 Nov 1916.

In any event thanks ever so much for your efforts and all that your members have turned up. I’ll continue to check the thread regularly and will continue to attempt to register so that I might thank your members personally.

best regards,

Arun Konanur=

Thanks for the update Arun. Unfortunately all my/our family history stuff was stored on my daughters computer. For some reason she lost all the info, and has not got around to trying to retrieve it. If I remember anything new I will post here.

Edit
She tells me she has a paper record and will dig it out to have a look. I feel sure that when my grandfather arrived from Wolverhampton he lodged on Margaret St, before marrying and then living with his wife at number 10.Margaret St. They too had 15 children some of who were buried in the unmarked grave section of Ince cemetery

Regarding the address of Moss View, Lower Ince, according to Wigan Streets 1903 by Freda Chorlton, Moss View was at 58-68 Taylors Lane, Lower Ince

link

My grandparents and Aunt and Uncle lived at 26 Taylors Lane, so I was always up and down that street, and must have passed Moss View on my way to watch the trains go under the railway bridge. Although there are still some of the older houses standing in Taylors Lane, as far as I can tell, Moss View is no longer there.

Irene Roberts had an aunt and uncle and cousins who lived at 64 Taylors Lane, I wonder if she remembers Moss View?

Thanks you all for your efforts. Ron has been kind enough to set me up with an account on the system, so I can finally comment directly to you all!

One question, regarding Moss View, at 58-68 Taylors Lane, Lower Ince: was Moss View a single building, or a group of attached residences? Just wondering, as it's not especially clear to me. Thanks again!

Hello and welcome to WW Arun.

There are many terraced (attached) houses that are given names for that row. I will find a pic that will make it a little clearer.

Arun, this row starts at 308 Ince Green Lane, I don't live in Wigan any more, so I am unable to tell you if your ancestors house in Ince Green Lane is in this row, depends which way the numbers go. Perhaps someone can check for you.

Anyway this row of attached or terraced houses as we refer to them is called Anderton Terrace with a date that looks like 1868. Which you will see next to the satellite dishes, if you zoom in. But it is in Ince Green Lane.

Arun, after a bit of trickery, I can tell you that this is 302 Ince Green Lane. it is in the row named Anderton Terrace. Since this row appears to have been built in 1868, it will be the house where your ancestors lived in 1883.

So, to answer your original question!

Moss View was a row of terraced houses at 58-68 Taylor Lane. That's 6 adjoining houses, as they be even numbers

My mother was born and raised at 26 Taylors Lane, and my grandparents and aunt and uncle and their family lived at 26 Taylors Lane,

Small World !