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Photo-a-Day Archive
Photo-a-Day Archive

Photo-a-Day  (Tuesday, 26th March, 2024)

Georgian House 1753


Georgian House 1753
Just up Standishgate from the long gone Golden Cross Pub this fine Georgia House that pre dates the Boston Tea Party by 20 years.
If you zoom into the top of the cast iron downspout it is embossed 1753 RG which I assume is Rex George for George lll.
What discussions might have taken place within those walls regarding to soon to come American War of Independence?

Photo: Colin Traynor  (iPhone)
Views: 2,007

Comment by: Garry on 26th March 2024 at 05:14

Through the arch building was used many moons ago by Mabs Cross Motors, then Fred Grimes Motors, Jimmy Collins Antiques. I think but not 100% sure.

Comment by: Veronica on 26th March 2024 at 07:06

I love this building and I’ve often wondered about it. I’m surprised it’s still here. What a treasure trove of history there is in Wigan. Does anybody know where I can look up the history of it. What is it used for these days? Another 40 odd years from then the unrest in France causing the French Revolution was worrying for the English.

Comment by: Peter Walsh on 26th March 2024 at 07:20

A grand old building Colin and at 1753 not long after the White Cockade passed.

Comment by: Helen of Troy on 26th March 2024 at 07:21

A fine lookng house Colin, must be a listed building. Is it an office or does
anyone live in it ?
As listed buildings go, WMC does not have a good record.

Comment by: Irene Roberts on 26th March 2024 at 08:00

Knowing Wiganers, I doubt they would have been discussing the American War of Independence....more likely what was going to win the 3.30 at Haydock Park! Yes, it was Mabs Cross Motors at one time; I know because my husband used to work in a very tall old building just before you get to this one and was very similar in style. It was at 118 Standishgate and it had to be demolished years ago as it was crumbling so badly it was unsafe.

Comment by: Arthur on 26th March 2024 at 08:04

That was a long time ago Garry.
I remember the Antiques shop but not the car dealers.

Comment by: Malc on 26th March 2024 at 08:11

We're back to building again. Don't know anything about this, but loved Dennis's photo yesterday. I still keep looking at it.
Don't forget the clocks go forward the Sunday. "Its Spring".

Comment by: Helen of Troy on 26th March 2024 at 08:16

A fine looking house...if it is still a house, ? Maybe its used as offices ?
If its a listed building I fear for its survival. WMC doesn't have a good record with listed buildings. Their motto seems to be leave them till they get into a perilous state, then you can demolish them & erect boxes made of ticky tacky. Good photo Colin.

Comment by: Alan on 26th March 2024 at 08:17

Jimmy Collins owned the building some years back, Antiques and collectable dealers. I think Jimmy past away in 2013.

Comment by: Wiganer on 26th March 2024 at 08:29

Mabs Cross Hotel was the large building to the right. I think the Antique firm bought it later.

Comment by: Jembo on 26th March 2024 at 08:43

Another nice bit of history. Keep them coming Colin.

Comment by: Colin Traynor on 26th March 2024 at 08:45

Sorry not have any flowers or wildlife in the picture, I do keep trying!
My particular interest is buildings in Wigan with history and a story to tell. Daffodils although beautiful are transitory and will be gone in a week or two, lying dormant for another twelve months before revealing their glory one again.

Comment by: Gary on 26th March 2024 at 08:52

Garry - Fred Grimes Motors.
Fred Grimes lived in what we considered a posh bungalow on Dicconson Lane beyond the Howfen boundary, half way to Cooper's turning on the A6. Used to see him every school day morning zooming past us in a grey Rolls Royce Silver Cloud, more often than not with a grim "lost a shilling and found an ha'penny" face.

Comment by: Colin Traynor on 26th March 2024 at 08:54

Peter W. I received what I now believe to be a rare copy of The White Cockade Passes last week, a fascinating read from the very first age, so much so that I followed the route of the horse drawn carriage from Warrington to The Old Dog in the Market Place assuming that it started its journey at The Barley Mow in Warrington Market Place.
I am slowly savouring every page.

Comment by: Colin Traynor on 26th March 2024 at 09:12

Helen, I don’t know who now lives in it, it might be flats but it is Grade ll listed.

Comment by: John (Westhoughton) on 26th March 2024 at 10:13

You’ve certainly done some revising on yet another old building Colin would there be any chance of a photo of the Old Hall at lower Ince and a name for the group that I think were resident around 1967 onwards please.
H

Comment by: How Ned Went to America . A Conversation . on 26th March 2024 at 10:16

" Evening to ye Ned , what shall it be ?

Not so much Brandywine tonight Joseph . Owd Jack says he spied the press gang in Hallgate yester eve . Happen I'll need me legs later .

They reckon there's scores a men hid in the woods on Beech Hill .
Poor lads , 'tis darker than Sherwood in yon . Geordie wants 'em for Americky .

The king's mad , but his reet . Let 'em Yankees fight the frogs their sen or pay up . I'm more moidered 'bout Hargreaves's Jenny . Damn thing needs smashing up . Who's yon strangers in the house ?

Travellers from London Ned . One's a portly cove called Johnson . That's his barouche in the courtyard . Going north on the new turnpike .

Will says you need a shilling now to pass the bar at Langtree . You'll not catch me giving Geordie a bob . 'Tis round Hic Bibi for me like Oliver went . He didn't care too much for kings either . Ha , ha ....."

A boisterous laugh went round the tap room of the Golden Cross . Joseph went over to the chimney and lobbed on another log . He took some sugar from a pocket in his waistcoat and sprinkled some onto the fire . It roared up the breast like dragon's breath .

" Just in from the Indies ' , he said ' Smuggled in this morn' from Lillypool . Small world ain't it ?

Aye , the world's getting too big and frantic for me matey . Bridgewater's digging fresh rivers and them steam machine things make too much noise . Perhaps I'll risk another goblet Joe .

Poet

Comment by: Ian on 26th March 2024 at 10:26

Garry, I do not recall the building to the right being used as a car sales place. The house/building was empty for a long time, then Jimmy Collins used it for his antiques business; I believe, he bought the house and the archway was to the back courtyard etc.
Jimmy Collins, later, turned the ground floor into a bar (pub/small disco...).
Grimes car sales/mechanics' garage was to the left, slightly down the slope towards Wigan town centre.
There was another building/house at the side of the one shown and, I think, this building was used, by the garage, as offices.
I'm sure that Grimes car sales etc. became Mabs Cross Garage.
Possibly, the courtyard was used for parking some of the cars, but I am not sure about certain dates and what it was used for when Jimmy Collins closed down the bar.
I know that some of the land through that archway was used as building land and, I believe, a house was built, possibly more than just one.
There is another building further along, to the right, and this was empty for a very long time; even when Jimmy Collins had his antiques business.
Also, there was a nice building next to Grimes car place, further down, but it was left in disrepair and part of the gable end collapsed: it was considered dangerous and, I believe, it was demolished.
It is such a shame that the whole area (Standishgate onto Wigan Lane) isn't like it once was, because there were some historical buildings.
But! Thankfully, some buildings have survived.
Colin, thanks for uploading this photograph.

Comment by: Irene Roberts on 26th March 2024 at 10:53

Ian, the building that had to be demolished due to being unsafe is the one I mentioned in an earlier comment . It was at 118, Standishgate. It used to be John Barnes Motor Factors. My husband worked in the warehouse in the 1970s behind the building that was demolished. The offices where the orders were taken by the office girls was in the bottom floor of the ancient building and the top storeys were occupied as flats. The man on facebook who often pinches photos off The Album put a photo of the demolished building on "his" facebook site, declaring it to be on Wigan Lane; when I corrected him and told him it was Standishgate he wouldn't listen but that's typical of him....he's right and everyone else is wrong!

Comment by: Veronica on 26th March 2024 at 11:14

That’s very good Poet..a bit of everything in the conversation in’t tap room. But where’s the comely wenches? Up at owd Haigh Hall methinks cleaning t’brasses and doin’ fot Mester.….

Comment by: Veronica on 26th March 2024 at 11:17

Do you mean the Jolly Swagman Irene..he’s still up to his tricks. Giving out false information half th3 time.

Comment by: Malc on 26th March 2024 at 11:37

Colin mi owd lad, of course Daffodils don't last long, this is why we need to capture them now. It's Spring. Buildings stay there and some are boring.

Comment by: Veronica on 26th March 2024 at 11:49

John ( Howfen) I remember going to the Old Hall around that time on Friday nights. The Vaqueros were on a lot at that time.
“ Tambourine Man” And Oooh! Yes I’m a Great Pretender….
A lad named Mick Gannon was in the group. He went to St Pat’s school at the same time as I did. He was always playing the guitar and singing even then with John Connolly. It was a great night in there in those days.

Comment by: The Woke One on 26th March 2024 at 12:07

"I received what I now believe to be a rare copy of The White Cockade Passes last week"

You can't say that !

Comment by: Ian on 26th March 2024 at 12:50

Sorry, Irene. I had read the postings before typing and posting mine. But, I thought that you meant the one next door to the building shown above. By the way, sometimes house numbers are lost on me, because I don't remember some of them or I never really took any notice of the numbers, only the buildings. But! Regarding 118, I should have remembered that number, because I delivered newspapers to the place; there were offices which I delivered to. Possibly, there were flats on the upper floors, but I never delivered to any and so I never went up the stairs. I remember that there were a number of steps to the front door, possibly about three steps and reasonably wide.
I do recall some large warehouse-type buildings at the back, which did not seem to be too old and certainly not as old as the houses.
I went down the narrow alleyway a lot, because I delivered newspapers to houses in Acton Street, Upper Dicconson Street, Eccleston Street, Dicconson Terrace and most of that area.
I thought, as a kid, those relatively modern buildings at the back, which were on much higher ground to where I was and on higher ground to the car garages on that particular alleyway land, were mechanics garages for the car sales place. But, I certainly will accept your knowledge on this warehouse/these warehouses and not contradict you, at all.
What I clearly recall is, the narrow alleyway opened out and although the alleyway was unevenly cobbled, the wider area was dirt and stones; rough ground and not flat as it was slightly sloping from the left to the right as Iwent to Acton Street. Additionally, there were garages, and I think that they were wooden garages, on the left. The ground certainly sloped up to these garage doors and to get to them, a car had to go between two houses on Acton Street, because it was not possible from Standishgate. Also, I am sure that this ground was Little London and there had once been houses there.
By the way, you were perfectly correct about it being Standishgate, because it becomes, roughly, Wigan Lane as it begins to flatten out (close to where Mab's Cross Monument now is). I am not fully sure, but I think that the crossing outside the school is the border line.

Comment by: Irene Roberts on 26th March 2024 at 13:40

That's okay Ian....please don't think I was complaining! I certainly wasn't and I like to hear other people's memories of places I remember myself. ...I was just pointing out why I remember the demolished building so well. Yes, the warehouse where Peter worked up the alleyway was a quite modern building....it was the actual 118 Standishgate building that was very old, and yes, there WERE steps up to the front door. Peter says there was talk of it having quite a history and certain parts of it weren't allowed to be be altered, but I suppose if it had become so unsafe that it could have fallen down as people were passing by , the powers-that-be would have had no choice but to demolish it.

Comment by: e on 26th March 2024 at 13:43

That was Mrs Shagpile on the blower…
She’s not coming in today…
…she says she’s taken to her bed with ‘a really bad migrant’….

Annie Tempest. Tottering -by- Gently

Comment by: Ian on 26th March 2024 at 13:46

"Additionally, there were garages, and I think that they were wooden garages, on the left."

Sorry! I meant, on the right as I went to Acton Street.

Comment by: Colin Traynor on 26th March 2024 at 14:14

The Woke One, I have heard the term but not quite sure what it means.
Perhaps you think I am being politically incorrect in my assumption of a rare book or are you just another of those mischievous anonymous persons?
Many thanks for engaging in such a informative way.

Comment by: Cyril on 26th March 2024 at 15:10

The Georgian building in the photo was at one time Sheargold's Antiques, if anyone remembers them, I'm not sure if they were the first antique business along there, as later quite a lot of antique and curio shops were around here on the top part of Standishgate and also further up on the lower part of Wigan Lane.
As stated Jimmy Collin's had his antique business next door to here at Mab's Cross House, which later part of it he opened as a peculiar hotel and bar and reached through the archway.
The Georgian building does look to be flats, and again through the archway and to the rear - and if still there, were also a few buildings, and these had businesses with flats above.
Mab's Cross Motors was on Mesnes Street opposite the cricket field, and Fred Grimes was, as Ian stated lower down Standishgate, which is now apartments, there was Acton Motor Garage which you got to through an alleyway further down than Fred Grimes, and there was also Cherrycroft Motor Garage, though this was further up on Wigan Lane, that you reached through an alleyway near to Cresta.

Irene, the building next door at number 118 that you mentioned, Brian put on three photos of it after the collapse in 2013, along with discussion, link: https://www.wiganworld.co.uk/communicate/mb_message.php?opt=f1&msd=1015993&offset=&subject=118%20Standishgate

Comment by: Irene Roberts on 26th March 2024 at 15:39

Thankyou Cyril. Colin, if we gorm this "Woke" lot we'll be too frightened to open our mouths in case we offend somebody. He/ she may have meant it as a joke on this occasion but in Life in general it's getting really silly and pathetic! It's coming to something when you can't mention the title of a book!

Comment by: Ian on 26th March 2024 at 15:57

Thanks! Irene. I thought that you were complaining - only joking! :-)

Cyril, you're right.
To get to the bar, you went through the archway and then went right and through a rear doorway. Some trivia information, many Wigan rugby players went in there; one evening, I was at the bar with the Iro brothers at the side of me.
Yes, Cherrycroft Garage was further up. To get to the mechanics garages, there were a number of ways: car-wide alleyway close to Cresta (as Cyril stated), an alleyway between the Chinese takeaway and the Millstone pub, from Coppull Lane.
Also, Cherrycroft had a shop on Wigan Lane, just further up from Cresta. There was also, for a time, a showroom, which was on one corner of the alleyway close to Cresta.
I am sure that the whole lot (Cherrycroft Garage etc) was owned by two brothers (Ma**** brothers).
Cyril, that antiques shop had gone when I was a kid. But, there was an antiques shop further down the hill, just past the narrow alleyway. Like you said, there were some on Wigan Lane. One antiques shop was just further up from Cresta and before the Chinese takeaway, one was just further up from The Millstone pub and before The Saracens Head pub. There was also an antiques shop on the opposite side, close to where the Post Office once was, which was on the opposite corner of Duke Street to where it is now.

Comment by: Sir Bob on 26th March 2024 at 15:57

118 Standishgate, Fawed Down.

https://www.wiganworld.co.uk/photoaday.php?photo=2013-05-30

https://www.wiganworld.co.uk/communicate/mb_message.php?opt=f1&msd=1015993&offset=&subject=118%20Standishgate

Comment by: DTease on 26th March 2024 at 16:30

I’ve just read all these comments and my heads hurting now. I think I’ll go to bed with a mustard poultice on it.
May be I’ll start boozing again. Life was much easier when I was half befuddled for most of the day.
Did you know that the sun shines all day when you’re befuddled? Come to that it shines for half the night as well!
Gerruminagen!

Comment by: Colin Traynor on 26th March 2024 at 17:01

DTease quite a lot of info to take in today but most comments are with good intent.
Have glass of sherry or a nice cuppa, tomorrow is another day.

Comment by: Irene Roberts on 26th March 2024 at 17:04

Not sure what our Veronica drinks, but Garry and I will have a sherry or six please, DTease.....hic!

Comment by: DTease on 26th March 2024 at 17:19

It doesn’t work without the mustard poultice Irene. It’s the blood boiling in your head that makes the sun shine. O happy day! Let’s have another!

Comment by: John (westhoughton) on 26th March 2024 at 17:25

DTease the drinks are on me after me taking what you said the wrong way the other day Irish Coffee,Sherries or maybe a decent pint of John Smith’s the choice is yours.

Comment by: John (westhoughton) on 26th March 2024 at 17:34

Veronica it was the best Friday for miles in fact Monday I had Friday on my mind I couldn’t wait.Those names com to mind as I was talking to a guy in Paul’s bike shop that also frequented the place and he told me some right tales about the Group best not repeated hahahaha.

Comment by: Peter Walsh on 26th March 2024 at 18:04

Colin, just up to the right was the Green Man Inn and I have commented on a photo of Mabs Cross showing this pub, which i have never seen a picture of before.

Comment by: Veronica on 26th March 2024 at 18:15

It was a great night John…and The Banner at Hindley on Saturday night. I wouldn’t know about the group’s other activities though. I was always a good girl.

Comment by: Kenee on 26th March 2024 at 18:58

John (westhoughton):
Regarding the Old Hall, The Vaqueros were resident there for most of 1965. Oggie played there from August 67 to October 68, I was his bass player. Mick Gannon and Johnny Kearns came to the OLd Hall about September 68 and asked me to join their group. I agreed and spent the next month rehearsing with them, then they got a tour of Germany and I pulled out for a number of reasons. Like Paul McCartney Mick had to switch from guitar to bass. I don't know if they ever returned to The Old Hall, Johnny (drummer) stayed in Germany and married a German Girl, Lally (vocals) went on to Italy where he became quite a big star. If you search this site for the Old Hall you should find a bit more info.

Comment by: Alan on 26th March 2024 at 19:12

Ian... Garry never said the building to the right was Fred Grimes. He mentioned through the arched Mabs Cross and Fred Grimes.

Comment by: Cyril on 26th March 2024 at 20:25

Alan, Ian said the building or even through the arch was never used as a used car sales.
There's a discussion about Jimmy Collins on the Boards, and it says that he was at one time a car salesman at Mab's Cross Motors, so that may explain a lot: https://www.wiganworld.co.uk/communicate/mb_message.php?opt=f3&msd=999897&page=25&subject=Jimmy%20Collins

Comment by: John(Westhoughton) on 26th March 2024 at 20:53

Cheers Kenee very interesting.

Comment by: John (Westhoughton) on 26th March 2024 at 21:15

Veronica did you ever venture to the Castaways at Hindley or the Northwestward Ho a small ship at Pamona Dock in Manchester/Salford in the 70ties,Miss Grace and I Can Help songs will sticking my mind for ever brilliant.

Comment by: Veronica on 26th March 2024 at 21:38

No I didn’t John the carefree days ended by then in 1970.

Comment by: Veronica on 26th March 2024 at 22:19

The Jolly Swagman has struck again.

Comment by: Ian on 26th March 2024 at 22:35

Alan, sorry about the misunderstanding. I certainly wasn't disagreeing with Garry. I was just saying that I could only recall the building being empty, then Jimmy Collins having it. I also mentioned that I couldn't recall the back area (through the archway) being used as a car sales place. But, I did say that I wasn't sure whether that area through the archway was used at some time for some business.
Garry, please understand, I was certainly not trying to get at you.
Possibly, before I was born, there was a car business being run at the back - I wouldn't know about this.

Comment by: Ian on 26th March 2024 at 23:26

Cyril, thanks!
I hope that you are fine with what I posted and find some of the information interesting.

Comment by: Garry on 27th March 2024 at 01:55

It's fine Alan and Ian, it's all about memories and opinions anyway.
I'm just finishing off my last glass of sherry and the fires almost out, at 1.55am time for bed. Cheers.

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