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Photo-a-Day  (Thursday, 18th January, 2024)

The Waste Land

The Waste Land
The Waste Land by T S Elliot can be viewed as a poem about brokenness and loss and Elliot’s numerous allusions to the First World War.
This picture taken from the upper floor and with kind permission of The Queens Hall Methodist Mission seems to convey the same significant feeling of social, psychological and emotional collapse.
On a brighter note you can now see the full length of Hope Street from the Market Hall through to Standishgate with Bryan House in the background.

Photo: Colin Traynor  (iPhone)
Views: 3,192

Comment by: Alan P on 18th January 2024 at 01:46

Oh, what a mess ! I knew Wigan would deteriorate when I emigrated !

(That is meant to be a joke, no offense meant)

Comment by: Colin Traynor on 18th January 2024 at 02:09

This is the second of three pictures taken. Hard to believe this is Wigan!

Comment by: Gareth Cheetham on 18th January 2024 at 06:50

This is a building site....to make allusions to the horrors of the first world war is at very best melodramatic and misleading, and at worst deeply disrespectful and in very bad taste.

Comment by: WN1 Standisher on 18th January 2024 at 06:52

Good photo Colin, what a mess !!

Comment by: Wigan Mick on 18th January 2024 at 07:03

It's crying shame

Comment by: Helen of Troy on 18th January 2024 at 07:21

I wasn't going to make anymore comments on this travesty. A Waste Land indeed Colin. On showing my other half this photo the comment was...'They should be locked up for that '

Comment by: Veronica on 18th January 2024 at 07:54

What strikes me is what a waste of time, money and man hours to reproduce another ‘Waste Land’ …after 30 odd years. But ‘ Hope St’ conveys looking forward. (I never did like to hear TS Elliot with his depressing voice reciting his ‘ Waste Land’ poem!) I felt more depressed than ever..…

Comment by: Veronica on 18th January 2024 at 08:39

Elliot later described his poem as” the relief of a personal and wholly insignificant grouse against life- just a piece of rhythmical grumbling against life”. Like many of us..

Comment by: Colin Traynor on 18th January 2024 at 08:42

No offence meant Gareth but it does look like a war zone!
Come spring it might be field of poppies, perhaps the War Memorial might be a suitable place in the centre as a garden of remembrance?
All options are welcome.

Comment by: Arthur on 18th January 2024 at 08:46

What a waste of time and money. This is going to take years.

Comment by: Margo Dupont on 18th January 2024 at 08:56

I con see my old play ground of my youth, the wuchy and a block of the Scholes condominiums

Comment by: Irene Roberts on 18th January 2024 at 08:58

I wish the old Market Hall was still there, and the fruit market. I wish Woodcock Street with the two ice-cream vans vying for trade was still there, and Wigan Fair too. I don't really care about those who always answer my comments by saying that it's time I moved with the times and embraced the future. I think it's because I AM older, and have seen so many "exciting new developments" fail that I am sceptical. I have a book by Paul O'Grady in which he tells of his Aunt Chrissy winning a poetry competition in The Liverpool Echo when the same destruction happened in the city in which she had grown up; her poem is actually very moving and ends, "Oh Liverpool, My Liverpool, What HAVE they done to you?!" I can hear those words echoing over "the wasteland" in that sad photo.

Comment by: Pw on 18th January 2024 at 09:24

Onwards and upwards.I really hope so.

Comment by: Veronica on 18th January 2024 at 09:35

Colin there may well be poppies growing if the work isn’t started by then. Poppies love upturned and disturbed ground. ( I Love poppies me! so much so I paint them a lot.)
Ps there’s no mention of gas, trenches or warfare in the poem unlike the War Poets definitions of war. It’s mostly about allusions ( to war) if I remember from nearly 40 years ago.

Comment by: Sue S on 18th January 2024 at 09:37

You’re fine Irene, I personally love to read your memories, keep them coming

Comment by: Tom on 18th January 2024 at 09:40

I was so up set when they carved up the Wigan countryside to make the M6 road, but after it was finished I loved and used to tell my friends that I lived close to junction 26

Comment by: DTease on 18th January 2024 at 09:47

Around 800 views in about 1 hour???? Amazing!

Comment by: Colin Traynor on 18th January 2024 at 10:01

Irene, Liverpool is a wonderful city, in the early 1950’s I used to visit relatives with my mother, unfortunately I cannot remember where but we used to take bus from Lime Street.
Never like driving into the city though, I always seemed to get in the wrong lane and finish up in Birkenhead through the tunnel!
I cannot recall much from those early days but like Manchester quite a lot of bomb damage and deprivation.
Both are now vibrant cities, but too many tower blocks in Manchester City centre, they look like stacks of hamsters cages.
Let’s hope that this expanse of waste land will be the regeneration we wish for and deserve.

Comment by: Gareth Cheetham on 18th January 2024 at 11:22

What does everyone think the old Market Hall looked like when they first started building it ? I'll say it again, this is a BUILDING SITE. Of course it looks a mess, and if its left like this, folk will rightly complain, but for God's sake, give the developers a chance. Towns and cities evolve and develop with time. We all know the arguments about out of town retail parks, the Internet etc, but the council is trying to bring some vibrancy and appeal back to the town that some people claim to love, but are determined to denigrate whatever happens. For what it's worth, the old Market Hall in the seventies and early eighties was a draughty, leaking, rat infested shed that stunk to high heaven and was completely unhygienic by modern standards. Thankfully, the council had the foresight and vision to get rid of the decrepit eyesore....

Comment by: Veronica on 18th January 2024 at 12:01

Dtease it’s so icy cold out there folk aren’t venturing out! My granddaughter drove me to Middlebrook for some shopping. I’ve never seen it so empty as it was this morning. That’s why folk are on their devices. You might be able to write one of your incomparable rhymes about the ‘Waste Land’ I’m sure it would be the absolute opposite of Elliot’s - cheer us up!

Comment by: Colin Traynor on 18th January 2024 at 12:07

In truth Gareth, I cannot argue with that.
It was a bit of a mess and when the Market Gate opened and then the Galleries, I for one thought that it was marvellous, the town was buzzing and the Market indoors and out was packed with stalls.
A yearning for the past through rose tinted glasses does no good. I just we knew more about what funding is in place, how the plans might have changed and therefore what the future holds.
Would be good if Wigan Council could put up a spokesperson on WW to address all the controversy concerns and anxiety we regularly express.

Comment by: Colin Traynor on 18th January 2024 at 12:17

PS Gareth, it’s a Demolition Site not a Building site.
It will be a building site once they have the funding in place, determine what the final approved plans are and start construction. Then it will be building site.

Comment by: Market Music on 18th January 2024 at 13:06

The market music once rang out
In a symphony of traders shouts ,
"Roll up , roll up we won't be beat
On prices far cheaper than the High Street ,
Buy our roast chicken rotating on spindles
Or some second hand records that have no middles " ,
And all of Hope Street filled with sounds
Of jingling pennies , shillings and pounds .

Remember the chimes of the ice cream vans
One singing , ' I'm Popeye the sailor man ' ,
While the other plied a different song ,
'Alas my love do me wrong ' ,
It was the music of the market hall ,
The vendors cries from the covered stalls
That sold cups and saucers and crockery ,
Silent now amidst this mockery .


Comment by: Ticsmon on 18th January 2024 at 13:10

Noe the Gareth, 'Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.'

Comment by: Keith on 18th January 2024 at 13:23

Well said Gareth old Market Hall was a draughty, leaking, rat infested shed that stunk to high heaven and was completely unhygienic by modern standards.
Well done Wigan council for knocking the place down

Comment by: Veronica on 18th January 2024 at 13:32

Alas! They’ve knocked two down.

Good one Poet.

Comment by: Cyril on 18th January 2024 at 13:37

Another great photo Colin, of what we being on the ground can't see.
The photo and comments of today have upset Gareth again.

In the 1980s I can vouch that there wasn't any rats in the 1877 Market Hall on Woodcock Street, and the only two places that smelled on occasions was the outside rear bin store and the outside front fish stalls, and of course it was draughty, because it was so busy that any one of the umpteen entrance doors would have been opened every few seconds, also food hygiene inspectors went regularly so if found to be unhygienic, in any way, it wouldn't have been allowed to trade.
Bolton and Durham too, renovated their similar design and age Market Halls, (the design you describe as a decrepit eye sore...,) and just look at them now popular and busier than ever.

Comment by: This Little Piggy on 18th January 2024 at 13:38

They huffed and puffed and blew the first one down, then the huffed and puffed and blew the Galleries down.
Will they huff and puff and blow the current well constructed, brick built Market Hall down or finally will the big bad wolf come to its senses?

Comment by: Norman on 18th January 2024 at 13:38

So glad the old Market has gone, we are in a fresh modern Wigan.
I look forward to the future.

Comment by: Keith on 18th January 2024 at 13:45

DTease Ive been wondering the same, Ive been told maybe somebody is sat pressing the view button all day.
Its up to 1,933 and its not 2pm yet.

Comment by: Irene Roberts on 18th January 2024 at 13:50

Although, as I said before, I DO miss the old Market Hall and wish it was still there, I am not blind to the fact that it WAS old and that it had its problems. I don't think the loss of the old hall is what has angered the people of Wigan. It's the fact that its "shiny new replacement" with NO rats and NO leaks is due to be demolished after a very short time. Wigan had its money's worth out of the OLD Market Hall, built as it was in the 1800s, but the new one and its surrounding "Galleries" has hardly had time to get a mark on the paintwork before being razed to the ground. Wiganers don't mind money being SPENT, but they hate to see it WASTED.

Comment by: Veronica on 18th January 2024 at 13:51

Well said Cyril ‘ sense and sensibility’!
Norman do you mean the old, old or BOTH? This will be the third IF and WHEN.

Comment by: Bob The Dog on 18th January 2024 at 13:51

All that space and only one Pie Shop!
Did you know that if you bought one a pie a day for a month from Galloways it would cost you £100!!!

Comment by: Keith on 18th January 2024 at 13:54

Must be something going on.
Views of recent photos have been 2832, 2752, 2247, 2384, 2038, 1742, 2090,
on other photos are usually around 1300 or 1500.

Comment by: Julie on 18th January 2024 at 14:27

All that i can say that it is terrible and once stood the poor old market hall its awful thinking about what was there for all of those years.

Comment by: DTease on 18th January 2024 at 14:29

In all the years I’ve been following P.A.D Keith, I can’t recall any photo getting so many views in so short a time. Truly amazing!

Comment by: Irene Roberts on 18th January 2024 at 15:35

I added another comment but not sure if it has been missed out. Apologies if it appears twice. It was just to say , re the old Market Hall which dated from the 1800s, to the "rat-free" replacement erected in 1987 and already due for demolition....THAT is what has angered the local townspeople. Wiganers don't mind the council SPENDING money, but they hate to see it WASTED! To demolish buildings that are just over thirty years old is just waste.

Comment by: Sir Bob on 18th January 2024 at 15:38

I would get used to that view, we might be looking at it for some considerable time .......

Comment by: Veronica on 18th January 2024 at 17:12

I wonder if HORIZON has anything to do with the viewing numbers!?

Comment by: Alan on 18th January 2024 at 17:17

I think Keith keeps clicking on Photo a day to get those numbers. Must be bored.

Comment by: John Noakes on 18th January 2024 at 19:09

I don’t see why you’re complaining.
It’s just like it was in the “good old days” of the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s, the times you speak so highly of.
All it’s short of is an old market hall, some cobblestones, a couple of buses and dozens of parked cars, and there you go, relive the past you all crave for.

Comment by: PeterP on 18th January 2024 at 19:48

When the archaeologists start digging they will have to dig deep because the top 50-60 ft was dug out for the galleries basement

Comment by: . Ozy . on 18th January 2024 at 19:59

Precisely Noaksey .

Comment by: DTease on 18th January 2024 at 20:10

There’s no doubt about it the numbers are rising
Veronica says it’s down to Horizon
The views start at nothing then multiply fast
On and on it goes, how long can it last?
Let’s hope the one who allows it to linger
Ends up in Hospital with a very sore finger!

Comment by: DTease on 18th January 2024 at 20:12

Get down Shep!

Comment by: Veronica on 18th January 2024 at 20:36

Somebody must be sat on a mouse…do they still have a mouse these days with computers? I wouldn’t know because I have an Apple iPad.
Well done Dtease your usual off the wall rhyming couplet..

Comment by: IT on 18th January 2024 at 21:26

Yes they do Veronica, wireless everything, even a mouse. You can't beat a proper tower computer with printer.
Much more professional quality and more importantly security.

Comment by: . Ozy . on 18th January 2024 at 21:32

Just to add ; it’s such a pity that so many tens , if not hundreds of thousands of pounds of public money that could have been utilised to improve Wiggin in general , appear to have been squandered on this one particular area , merely as it turns out , just in order to complete the circle .

Let’s face it , this place , ( Wiggin that is ) , over the past 40 years or so has morphed into a veritable dump .

Not the dump that Orwell encountered exactly ,… a different sort of dump , a more prosperous kind of dump , …. but a dump nonetheless .

The person/s at the helm , whosoever
he / she or they may be , must surely have misread the compass bearing at some point .

One thing’s for sure ; they’ll struggle to regain the correct bearing , and in the unlikely event that they ever manage to do so , I wouldn’t expect it to happen in my lifetime.

So good luck to anyone unfortunate enough to survive to be inhabiting Wiggin in 2040 …..( or anywhere else in the U.K. in 2040 if it comes to that )

It’s perfectly possible that I may well have been fortunate enough to have experienced the best that Wiggin ever had to offer,… such as it was …
future generations therefore may feel free to make the most of whatever’s left …
… And they’re bloody well welcome to what’s left an’ all for my money.

Having said that , I’d much sooner live in Marsh Green than live in … say … Toxteth……
Or bleed’n Kirkby even .

As I can confidently expect there to be at least two wheels remaining on my van in the morning .

Comment by: Wiganer on 18th January 2024 at 21:34

This is no laughing matter about Horizon linked to the Post Office.
Especially to the poor people who worked there.

Comment by: Veronica on 18th January 2024 at 22:08

There’s always somebody !.. Yes it’s terrible what has happened to those unfortunate people. Fujitsu will have to cough up and compensate.

Comment by: DTease on 18th January 2024 at 22:37

Wiganer, if you don’t laugh you’ll have nothing left to do but break your heart crying.
We oldies have had a fairly good life compared with what the next generation will have to face.
My heart bleeds for them.

Comment by: Veronica on 18th January 2024 at 22:39

Before you go any further Wiganer I was merely pointing out how technology is not all it’s cracked up to be and can have a mind of its own…nothing more. I sincerely hope and pray every one of those poor people are compensated and quickly. Don’t presume I was ‘ making out a laughing matter ’ as you put it either.

Comment by: another Dave on 18th January 2024 at 23:42

Pw , onwards and upwards . You might want to look upwards now on these cold frosty nights and you will see the planet Jupiter close to the Moon . To me it’s a wonderful sight so why not share it with those on WW who might not know . If you find the view interesting then have a read about Shoemaker Levy 9 . I saved this post to the end as not to distract from Colin’s picture and the comments .

Comment by: Pw on 19th January 2024 at 08:56

I have always enjoyed looking at the night sky but over the years where I live light pollution has ruined my view.I remember in the 50/60 on cold winter nights you could see so many stars and the planets and easily make out constellations and later enjoyed showing them to my children.Over the last ten years or so it has got so bad It is difficult to make out much with the naked eye but at least I have seen them in all their glory.

Comment by: John on 19th January 2024 at 09:11

Fully agree Wiganer, a bad taste indeed. I wish people would just take a moment with their brain and fingers before they make ill mannered comments.

Comment by: Pie eater. on 19th January 2024 at 09:21

It's no all about Compensation Veronica, very many good people have been ruined. Money can't buy everything!!

Comment by: Veronica on 19th January 2024 at 10:40

Why not comment on the photo before pouncing on other people’s comments! My intention was NOT to make a laughing matter out of the disastrous scandal. As I have said already do not presume I was. I also know Pie eater it’s not just about compensation. I watched every episode back to back. Nothing but Keyboard Pouncing with unnecessary jibes!

Comment by: Garry on 19th January 2024 at 12:16

I would say Veronica feels so sad and has much sympathy to all those Post Office workers wrongfully accused of theft over all those year than you and me. Stop being picky and so negative.
Open a bottle of sherry, you'll feel much better after a glass full.

Comment by: Veronica on 19th January 2024 at 12:38

Thank you Garry you are all heart and soul..I’m just glad the ducking stool was abandoned ..I would certainly have been a dead duck! You are correct my feelings for those sad and troubled people are beyond words. I watch all the enquiries on the box and can’t believe all the mistakes which Fujitsu have inflicted on decent people in the name of technology. People put too much trust in it.
Enjoy your Sherry and have one for me.

Comment by: WN1 Standisher on 19th January 2024 at 17:43

In a world where you can be anything, be kind......... Caroline Flack

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