Wigan Album

Our son walked up by Watergrove reservoir near Littleborough a week or so ago. The water levels were so low he saw demolished buildings & parts of a stone street that met up with the pack horse way on the moors side heading over the tops towards Todmorden ....part of a Roman road shown on the sketch maybe ?

Anyone visited Vindolanda on Hadrian's Wall ? Some of the stuff they've dug up there really brings the past back to life . The writing tablets with the every day chit chat , ' Mum , please send me more warm socks ' , and some rather naughty toys from a Roman Ann Summers shop .

All the way from Egypt to Wigan , what history ! Many would have had Greek or even Pharaoh ancestry , who knows , as Egypt became Roman and history went forward .
Just goes to show the incredible journeys and ancestry of the historical world .

Interesting map Ron.
Are there anymore detailed maps in the book showing, according to Wikipedia, a Roman Road running from Condate on map to Stockton Heath? Aptly named Roman Road and still in use.

Interesting map, so it seems that the remains of a road found in Bryn, Goose Green and Worsley Mesnes and apparently to be from Chester to Wigan wasn't actually built by the Romans, even though the parts of it are named Roman Road.

Poet, Vindolanda is an amazing place to visit to watch the digs and to view the artefacts they've found in the museum, there are some very large phallus's carved in stone in there they've found, accordingly the larger the phallus the better as they were thought to be a lucky symbol and to ward off misfortune and were placed over main door entrances. So a rather large one of those from Ann Summers could be a good idea to hang over the front door, at the least it may keep the JWs and Mormons from knocking.

Cyril.
I believe the road from Wilderspool to Coccium was only identified in the Nineteenth century. If the original from which this map is taken, or the sources of information used to construct this map predate such discovery, then, clearly it is not able to show it.

It is not a definitive map. It is someone's assertion of what existed, and with what accuracy, we do not know.

I read somewhere that when the Romans were posting soldiers to their far-flung outposts like Coccium or Vindolanda, they deliberately sent men from the opposite side of the Empire.

The idea was they would have no affinity with the locals, or compunction about knocking heads together when it all kicked off.

So there might have been soldiers from Egypt or Syria in Coccium back then. No wonder they were asking for extra warm socks.

Of course, this strategy never worked for very long, because there was always prompt 'fraternising' with the local lasses, followed by the patter of tiny (sandaled) feet and some level of integration. And the Coccium locals complaining ". . . come over here . . . . take all the jobs . . . ."

The other side of the coin is that maybe some strapping, Roman-era Wiganer lads joined up with the legions and got posted to Spain or Egypt. And got to sample the warm, sunny weather and drink loads of wine with not a Ryanair or EasyJet plane to be seen.

As Cyril says Vindolanda is a must for anyone interested in Roman history in England & the whole of Hadrians Wall from the Solway Firth to Newcastle tells their story.

The wearing of socks with sandals just had to be a British invention !

Very interesting post English Electric, made easy to follow and humorous too! Vindolanda reminds me of a red hot curry for some reason! I enjoyed everyone of the postings as I don’t know much about Roman history apart from them leaving after 400 odd years and some of the history left behind at the bottom of Millgate and of a Roman cemetery where the Gas Works was situated. Quite interesting. Surprising the things you can find out. The socks made me laugh out loud - there’s only the English wear socks with sandals! ;0))

Veronica, there's some interesting information about Romans in Wigan within this online booklet, also contains other interesting stuff too. https://www.betanetcafe.co.uk/Window%20on%20Wigan%20Research%20book.pdf

Thanks Cyril we can always rely you to point us in the right direction.
;0))

Cyril there is no doubt that a Roman Road ran from Chester to Wilderspool and on to Wigan. Google Roman road from Chester to Stockton Heath. The only doubt is did it leave Chester from the east or north gate. Roman industrial settlements have also been found in Wilderspool, but obviously one kiln smaller than in Wigan.

English Electric,

The system used for the Roman Legions consists of men 'recruited' in one of the provinces, and sent to serve in a different province. Hence reduced risk of divided loyalty.

The legion settling in Deva (Chester) was the 20th legion.

It is believed the 20th was raised in North Africa, to fight initially in Cantabrian Wars in Hispania from 25 to 19 BC. but the evidence is thin.

They were later joined by Leggio Adiutrix ll (The Second Adiutrix)

This lot are rather different.

They are an emergency assistance (rescue) legion put together in a hurry. They were recruited from within the Roman Navy. (The Classis Ravennas) So, (unusually) they were actually formed in what we now think of as Italy, though at the time, it was a province of Rome. I think there is not any record of where The Classis Ravennas originally recruited them from.

Of course, over the centuries replacements probably came from other places, disrupting this pattern.

There was part of a Roman road found in Atherton at Gadbury Fold when they started building work a few years ago.

John, I only questioned this as the road isn't shown on Ron's map of Lancashire Roman roads. I've heard in the past that the A49 followed the route as close as possible and there is a street in Bryn with the name Roman Road and local talk says this ancient road continues under Stuart Baldwin's farm field which he denies.

Marus Bridge was supposedly named after a Roman official and further along Warrington Road and standing back from this are a row of bungalows also with the name Roman Road.

So yes you're right and that local evidence points to the fact that an ancient road existed along here at one time, and if it wasn't Roman then why would the name Roman road be passed down through the ages.

John are you from Coppull and the local Staveley free range hen and egg farming family.

Hi Cyril I now realise that you have a wealth of knowledge of Roman Wigan. All I know was gleaned from a Heritage Tour of Stockton Heath SH that pointed out that a Roman stone lined well was found when excavating for a local school and that SH had a significant industrial, mainly pottery kilns and a very rare Roman soldiers helmet was found. I called at Staveley’s egg farm at Coppull and compared family tree notes, but sadly Keith Staveley is not from our Aysgarth line of Staveley’s who moved to first Horwich then Wigan Haigh Foundry presumably to find work. My main interest is in researching our families connection with the Laxey Wheel IOM snd have seen most if not all of the arguments including Clare Staveley’e articulate summary of it remaining a Staveley myth whether or not George Staveley who moved to Wigan circa 1850 worked on its construction. I still have a distinct Wigan accent which doesn’t go down well with Warrington Rugby supporters, bad losers, so you are stuck with me, I hope. Cheers.

Good luck in your search of family connections with the Laxey Wheel John.