Wigan Album

BOTTOM OF AMY LANE. NEAR SCHOLES BRIDGE. YOU CAN JUST SEE THE BRICKWORK OF THE BRIDGE ON THE RIGHT. AND YOU CAN MAKE OUT AMY LANE NEXT TO IT.. IT LED TO WARRINGTON LANE, NEXT TO THE STANLEY ARMS. AND OPPOSITE THE ROYAL GEORGE

Sorry it’s already on and it was discussed before.
It took a while if I remember to get its location.

This pub is not on the 1890 map so I would think short lived.
The pubs up the hill are The Free Trade Inn, The Clock Face, The Fleece and The Weavers Arms and across the road, The Rope and Anchor, The Shovel and Broom, The Horse and Jockey, all within a few yards.

I do think the buildings were in a lot better state than some of the other pubs on Scholes.
It’s on the other site that’s why I posted it and nobody knew where it was..

The Stanley Arms was the first pub I ever bought a drink in and I was still at school.

On 21 February 1918 a Pedlar named Albert Walsh is recorded as having died at the Moulders Arms Lodging House, No.1 Scholes. (Wigan & Leigh Archives)

I don't think he was a relative of mine Rev David, but this pub was demolished about 1920. My grandmother lived on Stony Row which was on the top of Amy Lane Her maiden name was Ashurst. Opposite was the Stanley Arms.

The Stanley Arms was the first pub I ever bought a drink in and I was still at school.

Sorry - got his forename wrong - it was Robert. He was buried in Wigan Cemetery on the 26th February - one of seven, including two babies, buried in a common grave, M57, between 11th February and 6th March, in what had been the sole resting place of John Fairclough, from 29th December 1857. It seems to have been usual to turn unmarked paid-for graves into common graves - presumably after it was assumed there was no one likely to come forward to claim it on behalf of the deceased's family.

Rev long our family has graves in wigan cemetery they are spread about in different graves Who owns them ,

Rev what happens to the old graves are they just left, notice a lot in wigan cemetery look neglected with no family left it seems a shame

Unused and untended graves are often re-used as common graves.

I'm not an expert - but as I understand it, graves were normally owned by the family of the deceased in perpetuity. Deeds were issued which are the proof of ownership required before subsequent burials are permitted in a grave.
However, when the 1974 Local Government reorganisation came in, and the various cemeteries owned by the constituent Councils of a new Local Authority came under a single jurisdiction, (in Wigan - Wigan, Ince, Hindley, Leigh, and Atherton) it was thought necessary to have a common set of Regulations. The present arrangement is that a grave space is owned for 100 years - and deeds are, as before, issued to the family as proof of ownership for subsequent internments. I think that came in with the 1974 changes in Regulations... but someone may know better.
I don't think they were able to apply this retrospectively - so graves granted in perpetuity are still so held.
It seems, as I said earlier, that cemetery authorities assumed that there was no one around to lay claim to neglected, unmarked, graves - so they re-used them for fresh internments - sometimes for publicly-funded 'paupers' graves, but also re-selling the space as paid-for plots. Whether the new deed-owners were aware there was already a body in 'their' grave, I don't know.
I would assume that anyone who has the Deeds to a grave, and can prove their right to own them, may make use of such a grave for their own use - burial, or internment of ashes. However, as it's a simple piece of paper, I expect many Deeds have been mislaid within families - so your family's graves, Tom, may have Deeds attached to them, but you need to actually possess them to lay claim to a grave.
Generally-speaking, Councils will leave graves alone, but may, for instance, remove kerb-stones to allow for easier mowing and maintenance. They will also lay down headstones which are thought to be in danger of causing injury by falling over. Where possible they will try to locate families to have such work carried out - but record-keeping is often poor.
Note that Churchyards are administered completely differently from Local Authority Cemeteries.

You don't buy the land, only the burial rights for a length of time ie: 100 years. 75 to 80 years is regarded as a fair length of time for refurbishment and re-use as of a parliamentary bill from 1977.
As you said there, Rev David, that goes for cemeteries, not church yards.

Thanks rev I did go to cemetery office when it was in standishgate looking for A grave of relatives who died 1919 ,they fetched out a old large book and found it ,they told me my grandmother had bought it for relatives who died ,so they must have records somewhere, I asked who does the grave belong to now nobody knew

Thankfully, you don't need to go to the cemetery office to find where folk are buried - Freda Chorlton did a magnificent job of transcribing the records for all of the cemeteries in Wigan itself (ie not Leigh and Atherton) - and those records can be found on this site, under "STUFF". There's a list of cemeteries, and a search facility, making it easy to find burials. It hasn't been updated - so recent internments are not there - and it has some understandable errors - but it's an invaluable resource.

Rev long
Wiganworld is a great site to trace old relatives.my mate and traced one his relatives to adress in 158 upholland rd turned out to be a work house and hospital for inmates buried wigan

Roughly speaking when do you think this picture dates from as knowing the bottom of Scholes very well from the 1950's I am having difficulty getting my head around its reported location?
If that is Amy Lane to the right it looks far too close to the bridge and too narrow to access what would at one time have been Douglas Forge which in the 1950'60's was a Wood Yard.

Tom - I forgot to say - if you look at Freda's transcriptions, once you've found the person you're looking for, you can click on the grave reference which is given, and that will give you the names of any others interred in the same grave. You may find a clue to who hold the deeds from the name of the last person to be interred - their relatives will have had to produce the deeds to prove their burial rights.

Entrance to woodcock house,lived in scholes
Till married font know any date

Look at photo 10055 in ‘Places’ of old Scholes Colin. You will see the houses in the background on Warrington Rd and the ‘park’. You should get your bearings as to where this pub was.

Name John Winstanley
Age in 1911 55
Estimated Birth Year abt 1856
Relation to Head Head
Gender Male
Birth Place Inec In Makerfield, Lancashire, England
Civil parish Wigan
County/Island Lancashire
Country England
Street Address 1 To 11 Scholes Wigan(Moulders Arms)
Marital Status Married
Occupation Registered Common Lodging House Keeper

In 1881 it is listed as the Forge Inn ,1 Scholes

Rev long.
Another website which is
Excellent is parish clerks on line lots of church records births, marriages, deaths

Latham Richard, bolt and throstle screw maker, Scholes Bridge Works; and beer retailer, 1 Scholes

https://www.wiganworld.co.uk/album/photo.php?opt=5&id=5594&gallery=Scholes&page=2

Yes, Tom - the LOPC site is very useful. However, it is limited by the willingness of Churches to allow their Registers to be copied. Back in the 1970s the Latter Day Saints (Mormons) succeeded in getting permission from the majority of Parishes in the CofE to photograph their Registers - though it was up to individual Parishes to agree. They constitute the core of the LOPC site database. Then in the 1980s CofE Parishes were told to deposit their Registers with their local Archives - unless they had Archive-grade safe storage for them. Almost all acquiesced - and over the years the LOPC has been approaching Parishes for permission to photograph their deposited Registers. I've been involved in getting three local Parishes to give such permission. The LOPC has also been requesting to be allowed to photograph Registers (usually those still in use - which can span many years) still held by the Parishes. I have photographed two such sets of Registers myself. The entries for many Churches, however, stop when the LDS material ends.
There are many gaps in the LOPC's coverage - Wigan is quite good but, for instance, Southport Parishes seem to have been reluctant to engage throughout the above process. Roman Catholic Parishes, and many Non-Conformist congregations, have also been reluctant.
Anyone who has contact with a church might like to look up their church on the LOPC site and check how comprehensive its coverage is there - and approach their church authorities if there is no coverage, or if what is there is ends around 1910 - and ask them to consider adding to the LOPC's database.