Wigan Album

Ive seen a few old stones at the front and a fireplace in the back wall.

That's a concrete roll-top ridge tile.

I would say Noaksy is right. It also looks to be a match to the concrete roll-top ridge tiles off the top of the old chapel in the cemetery across the road.

Mick was that the fireplace you imagined you were walking into, re photo a day 5th August at 11:23.

Yes John it's the one you made earlier when you were on Blue Peter and when Shep cocked his leg up on it.

Hi George,

I'm not sure how a ridge tile (a good weight) would make its way off of the chapel and end up in a woodland across the road. Too much circumstantial evidence with me and Ron being on the spot of the Hall of Ince and its outbuildings. There is some rubble and it was quite obvious the woodlands are not used although there is a path running down the back of Huws Gray.

I'd hazard a guess that this concrete tile is Victorian having done abit of research.

http://www.stoneroof.org.uk/historic/Historic_Roofs/Concrete_tiles.html

As can be seen in the above link the first concrete roofing tiles were being made in Bavaria in the 1840s, and according to Redland concrete roofing tiles began being produced by them from 1919: https://architecturetoday.co.uk/celebrating-100-years-of-concrete-tiles/

https://www.sigroofing.co.uk/roofingproducts/pitched-roof/faqs/
you'll see on the link that concrete roofing in Britain only became to be popular in the 1920s and that the Victorians never used them. So the information in the links should give an indication of the age of the ridge tile.

Nice find Cyril. I guess having such an old house it would come a time where things needed repairing or replacing. On the 1965 map it describes the hall as restored, between what periods I'm not sure of yet.

Ron, Andy, was it the cemetery side of the old railway line you looked around or the Huws Gray side?

It must be around thirty years ago when I went to the area on the cemetery side after complaints from the nearby houses, I remember a brook running along there and the area near to the railway embankment was I seem to remember quite swampy, though then there wasn't all those trees and shrubs.

Behind Huws Gray is Claire House and when that opened there was quite a lot of carved stone around the entrance car park, these were apparently found from around when the building was being built, and these looked as though they could have come from an ancient building, I've just been looking on Google Street View at the area and those carved stones have now gone.

It's like a forest now on the cemetery side, I haven't driven past there recently, but I'm sure that when I last did it wasn't so overgrown. Looking at the ridge tiles on the old chapels from Google Street View they look like the blue clay ridge tiles.

I never knew that the hall was still there at that time Andy, with the old tales about it told on here, and with it being built well before the railway line went through there, I'd thought it had long been gone, the tales were Kitty bout yed, and others, I'm sure someone who knows them will retell them.

So it's quite possible the tile did come from off the hall as you say when it was restored, it could originally have had a stone slated roof and they may have wanted similar looking material to replace it. The bricks that were found will be interesting to see too, if it was the cemetery side of the rail line where you and Ron were investigating; then looking at the overgrowth thereabouts you'd have needed machetes to cut your way through.

Hi Cyril,

We were behind Huws Gray where the Hall of Ince once stood. The cemetery and Hall were seperated by Warrington Road. Ince Brook passes to the south and culverts under the road.

The drive to the hall originally is now under HG however the Pemberton Loop Line that later ran through and very close to the Hall has long gone as it was a viaduct. The path you can follow would be that of the line at ground level.

There is still a ditch/delph in the woodland which can be seen on a photo on this website with steps leading to the Hall. There has been some confusion over the Ince Hall's which I aim to clarify with my ongoing project.

Some clarity comes from the excellent David Long here: -

https://www.wiganworld.co.uk/album/photo.php?opt=5&id=13677&gallery=Lower+Ince&page=1

The railway came along and the drive to the Hall seemingly moved to Warrington Road as per the above link. The railway was a stones throw from the Hall of Ince it is no wonder the owners hadn't lived there from around 1750 seeing what Ince became (with the land owners blessing). They were happily living in Bath.

Cyril - I came across the piles of stone you mention some years ago - before Claire House was being built. Many of them were terracotta sections with lettering on them. The story I heard was that they were removed to there from demolitions in the Chapel Street/ Central Station area. Unfortunately, this was all before digital cameras led us to snap all and everything we come across - so I've no images of the material.

The 1840 map shows Ince Hall, north of where Claires House is now and The Hall of Ince further south near the cemetary. The former appears to have been the larger of the two and later maps refer to it as The Old Hall. There is Old Hall Street where it stood.

There's been 4 Ince Halls in total.

Cyril, the house in question, from where the ridge tile came, is "The Hall of Ince", which once stood in LOWER Ince, across the road from Ince Cemetery. The house that Kitty Beawt Yed haunted was "Ince Hall" which is in HIGHER Ince, near Careless Lane.

I remember about 40 years ago visiting a stone reclamation yard in the vicinity of Huws Gray , to the rear if I remember correctly , we were collecting used stone setts for a landscaping job being carried out by a council run training scheme. I think the the yard was also operated by the council as some kind of training/re-skilling centre. I remember seeing carved stone blocks bearing the legend The Horseshoe from the pub in Scholes. This probably explains the seemingly random nature of the items found

Just been looking at a old map of lower Ince and Spring view,The Hall Of Ince was on the corner of Warrington Road and Donkey Lane.

David, yesterday I only looked around Claire House using Google Street View, but I couldn't see any of the stones etc., which were in the car park flower beds etc.

I originally saw them when taking my wife's aunt to the doctors that had moved to there from Warrington Road, I was originally thinking they'd come from the scrapyard that was nearby, was it Wignall's? though Roy Lamb's chemist said they were found when the building was being put up and that the scrapyard hadn't come so far down. I also remember the taxi driver who posts on here by the name of Sir Bob, he also mentioned them in one of his posts as he'd been looking at them when taking a fare to there.

So if they've been moved elsewhere on site or taken away to wherever, though you would expect stones that had been there there for years, and then placed around flower borders for ornamental purposes to have been left there, but no, maybe someone had designs on them for their own garden.

So, I'm getting my halls mixed up Irene, though I've always known the Ince Hall at Higher Ince to be called Peel Hall.

Peel Hall is off Holt Street, over Rose Bridge, Cyril, between Holt Street and the canal. Ince Hall is up Ince Hall Avenue, on the OTHER side of Rose Bridge and the canal. Oddly, My Mam always called Ince Hall Avenue "Johnson's Walk" when I was growing up. I have never heard anyone else call it that.

Irene do you think it could be after Johnson the Mayor (1902)? I believe he lived there for a time and before that the Gaskell's.

J.Stone, I was told there was a tip nearby which was further along. I'm going to hang my hat and say the ridge tile, loose bricks and bits of flagstone right on location of the old hall belonged to the property. Can you trace the location of the reclamation yard by memory to have been on the sight of the old hall? I can't see any access points.

It's easy to get the halls mixed up as they sounded similiar but defined by location. A simple, heavy concrete tile has really made the comments flourish, who would have thought!

That makes sense, Andy. My Mam was born in 1911, (she was in her forties when I was born), so she and her Mother before her could have know it as "Johnson's Walk" if Mayor Johnson lived there.

I the 1980's I worked for a company in Exmouth, Devon. The Managing Director was John Smiles from Amersham in Buckinghamshire.
He said that his family a few generations before lived in Ince Hall. His wife brought a framed print of the Hall which I photo copied but have since lost. She was a polite genteel lady who had a romantic view of Ince and what it was like. She said she would love to visit one day as she imagined they now served Cream Teas on the lawn!!!!!!!!
At the time I did try to find where the Hall had been, at the bottom of Cemetery Road (where the Old Hall pub was located on the corner) and other locations without any luck.

Colin, "The Hall of Ince" was on the opposite side of the road from The Old Hall pub and further towards Wigan, just before the the road bends to the right. It is just all an overgrown area now but the Hall did stand there many years ago.
"Ince Hall" was in Higher Ince, and is still there, as far as I know, but is now apartments. I doubt you would get cream teas on the lawn though!

Colin,

Are you describing Ince Hall or the Hall of Ince? The former was on Old Hall St and disappeared during the 1920's and the latter off Warrington Road (adjacent to Ince Cemetery) and disappeared sometime after 1965.

Great story that I would like to follow up seeing as I'm doing lots of research at the moment.

I had posted a comment yesterday, but it seems to have gone to wherever the mislaid comments and odd socks go to.
It was to thank you Irene for the information on the different halls, and also to you Andy wishing you luck on collating information for your ongoing project.

I've had a mooch and here's some info and photos of the Hall of Ince, Lower Ince from the Album: https://www.wiganworld.co.uk/album/showalbum.php?opt=5&gallery=Lower+Ince

also info and photos of the Ince Hall Higher Ince: https://www.wiganworld.co.uk/album/showalbum.php?opt=5&gallery=Ince+Hall

Ince Hall near the canal, near Peel Hall, to the left of Bell Green Lane.

Ince Hall north of Manchester Road, to the left of Petticoat Lane.

Ince Hall near the bottom of Ince Green Lane.

Ince Hall (Hall of Ince) close r to cemetery.

Four.

Plus Peel Hall and Westwood Hall.

Will the real Ince Hall please stand up.

The maps have reminded me of a car sales, Crow Orchard Motors or Garage that was on this area, it was reached by what seemed to be an old side street, and then a makeshift road from off the bottom end of Ince Green Lane, we once went to look for a smallish family run-around, but I think all he had in were old Jaguars and Daimlers. This was before the land and the road layouts were altered.

There is a lot of dunces round the Wigan area, and they all know lots about nothing.

John Noakes, the hall to the left of Pettycoat Lane on all maps I found since 1845 is named New Hall.

Andy Lomax- Sorry I can’t recall the exact location of the reclamation yard , other than it being the general area of Huws Gray, which has changed hands several times over the intervening years- Laycocks, Malden etc. I suppose it’s also feasible that they could be one and the same place, if the HG site once belonged to the council….? Time Team would have a field day sorting out the genuine artefact from stone yard detritus…..