Photo: Tim Cooke
Item #: 33524
Is that not Wallgate?
I think It is Wallgate DTease, as the Dog & Partridge pub is clearly spelt out. Im just going of the inscription on the bottom of the pic.
Tim Cooke: That’s a very nice sketch of what DTease has put down, however it must mean that Hallgate was first then Wallgate came on the scene later when more buildings and streets developed. That’s just my guess anyway, could be totally off the mark.
I thought the same Dtease, near the old General ..... but...! .
We won't know for certain until Jim and George say....
Where are they when you need them, Veronica?
The rather faint writing I read at first as Wallgate, H and W can easily be mis - interpreted. I can’t make out the name on the bottom left, presumably the artist. Best guess Wm. Wright???
It could be that the Artist was confused between Wallgate and Hallgate. It definitely looks like Wallgate. I won't be able to walk up there from the Station without thinking of the Stocks and the 'counter' at the side. Wonder what was being sold, eggs? For throwing at the unfortunate victim locked in the Stocks! Is the water pump attached to an underground spring or well? It's a new picture to me and it gives a lot of information of that time.
It's a known fact the stocks and a pump were located on Wallgate close to where the GPO would later stand.
I think we can say the title of Hallgate is either a printing or geographical error.
Thank you Tony L: I thought we had uncovered a bit of history for a moment.
Veronica/DTease: just shows you how old documents or paintings can throw doubts and confusion in to history, even though you think you’ve got the answer.
Ok I need a bit of help myself now, on this side further down before the rail station, used to be a large shop of a Ferrier, for horse equipment, leather bags etc.
My Dad took me when I was a nipper for his pit belt, what was the name of that shop.
Yes its definitely WALLGATE As has been said previously, the stocks and water pump were outside of what was the old Post office, the pub named DOG and PARTRIDGE clarifys this.
John G. the leather goods shop/saddler's was Robinsons as far as I remember,
Thanks John, funny this sketch made me remember the shop!
The W in Wigan looks like a H as well.
The date on the print is important.
It looks like 1850. Bearing in mind that the church tower only got it's current top floor, along with clock and pinnacles, after 1861.
So, maybe, it's a fake?
James you could get a job on 'Fake or Fortune'...helping Fiona and Philip Mould.
You 'll need one of those woolly scarves carefully folded around your neck though. Why these 'arty' types have to wear a scarf around their necks as a statement is beyond me! Also don't forget the provenance that should go with the drawing.
It's definitely Wallgate. There is an old photo taken by J. Cooper showing pretty much the same vista from halfway on the picture to the right edge.
Also, the location of the town well, is known to be there on Wallgate. In fact, the name Wallgate is generally considered to be a 'sound shift' example of the name Wellgate. ie Street of the well.
When I walked up Wallgate from the station the other day. I noticed the iron square covering over where the water pump was situated.
James is right the date says 1830 and that was before the tower was built up and clock was put there so it must be a fake
Does anyone know if Wallgate's well was one of those capped in the response to the cholera outbreaks in the Nineteenth Century?
The tower would have looked like this in 1930. The renovation started in 1840 was to be a faithful copy of the original. Seven bells were fitted in 1732 by Abraham Rudhall of Gloucester. Upper section restoration was completed in 1861 but that was not adding height, that was done prior to 1700.
Peter are you meaning 1830 or '1930' as stated?
Interesting research, the artist wasn't using artistic licence then with the drawing. It was as high as depicted., following on from a previous building?
Yes Veronica I meant 1830, thanks for the correction.
Architectural history records - "In 1861 E. G. Paley, now working alone, added another stage to the tower including clock faces and pinnacles".
You can't argue against that.
Engraving dated 1861. http://www.cobjoecottage.net/allsaintswigan.html
All Saint's Wigan website. http://wiganparishchurch.org/index.htm
More history from genuki, https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/Wigan/AllSaints
They must have got confused with the Rectory and the church as the church is stated to be on being New Market St Wigan.
Its a drawing, if the artist had drawn a flying saucer in the sky it wouldn't mean the martian had landed in Wigan
I looked at the site Cyril, interesting to read. Makes you wonder if the artist had an idea of what was in the pipeline with regards to the building. There may have been plans afoot in the 1830's for the tower to be extended ... who knows...