Wigan Album

Yes, I think it IS one of Frank's. He captured some wonderful memories. I loved The Old Arcade. I can remember a shop top right of this photo that sold strings of toffee-bags and my Mam used to buy me some to play "shops" with....I still have a string of paper bags hung up in my kitchen! to this day! (I have a "thing" about packaging!) The same shop used to sell loose fireworks in October.....they were in a big container outside the shop doorway and you picked your own....can you imagine that happening today?!

Ron. Every one a winner. Nostalgia’s wonderful.

Oh how I loved this Arcade,with the lovely Mr Smith and Margaret Razak..as a teenager every Saturday I would go to Wigan with my Mam,we always finished up in Gorners Cafe,being served with young women dressed in black dresses and little lace aprons..of course my Mam always had to be weighed by the man ( I've forgotten his name)..I get a warm glow just remembering this Arcade,it was one of Wigans gems..I wonder if today's youngsters will feel like that about the Grand Arcade in years to come..I hope they do..but I will enjoy my memories in the meantime.

Gorner's cafe Maureen, the last time i saw your Michael was in there.
RIP Mick

Aww,thank you Roy..was that before his accident or after.

Many a wedding reception was held in Gorner's cafe - cheap and cheerful, well there was a war on and that's where my Dad and Mam's was, so I'm told. A table for 4! What would Jane Austen have said - a" pithy affair". .?

The Arcade looks packed, can’t see a year it was took, but looking at the TV magazine on the stand it’s probably between 1969-1973, Stan and Blakey from the buses are on the cover.

After Maureen.

Geoff Shryhane did an article in 2016 about those scales Maureen,
https://www.wigantoday.net/news/geoffrey-shryhanes-my-world-1200957

There was also a discussion on here about them, someone said Jack Rudd whilst someone else said Bob Rudd?
https://wiganworld.co.uk/album/photo.php?opt=6&id=28051&gallery=HARRY+WALDER&page=1

I can imagine there's more folks in this photo of the arcade than there would be in the whole town centre in a month nowadays.

The reason I'm asking Roy is that I'd gone to town and our Michael was coming from the Arcade when I saw him, it might have been the same day that you met him..I could have said "Hello Roy" lol.
All joking aside Roy,he was a tough nut wasn't he..the tales I could tell you.

Thank you Cyril,I read about those scales and the man that used them,but I've forgotten where..I tried to find an answer in the search box, but as soon as I type anything and click on ,it disappears.
And you're quite right about the number of people in the photo..years ago the place was alive wasn't it..it's depressing now.

NOTICE THE GIRL HAS A PROPER WICKER SHOPPING BASKET. YOU DON'T SEE MANY ABOUT THESE DAY.S BUT I KNOW IRENE HAS ONE.

I have got FIVE wicker baskets, Ron! As everyone on Wigan World knows, Peter and I attend the 1940s events where most of the ladies carry a basket. I tend to get them given to me because people know I will use them and take care of them. They are brilliant for carrying bread, cakes, pies etc without them getting squashed! I get many, many comments on my baskets whenever I am in Wigan or elsewhere....people tend to stop me and say they remember having them at school for Cookery Lesson.

I have a square basket under the sink Irene, I'll leave it to you in my will. It's only got shoe polish and brushes and dusters in it.

L bought my first pair of tight there Teddy Bare tights American Tan

John G - TV Times on magazine rack was for week commencing Sunday 25th September 1971, so pic taken not that long before the arcade was demolished.

Just to add a comment was not it nice to have a busy town center full of nice shops not like today Charity shops Vape bars and Barbers and nail shops when the old market goes no point in coming to Wigan as no fresh food to be had

The Market Hall and Market Arcade.
Wigan Icons still much lamented.






As the Market Hall struggles against changes in shopping habits, high parking charges not to mention the internet . Its timely to look back to the old Market Hall and Market Arcade in their heyday.

The experience of visiting The Market Hall started as you left The Market place via The Market Arcade , with its uneven Yorkshire Stone Flag floor . Known to all as 'the little arcade' or ' the old arcade', alive with its many stalls and characters - Bob Rudd with his scales, who would shout "try your weight friends " to passers by. Sid Smith's newsagents , Sid was an institution in Wigan he seemed to know everyone of his customers and had a cheery word for for all. The smell from Gorner's Cafe wafting through the thoroughfare; it was a real treat to dine there ,white tablecloths waitresses in nippy type uniforms. My favourite was steak pudding and chips or it may have been mash, I can't be absolutely certain about the accompaniment but the pudding was better then my Mam's homemade and that's saying something !

In the early 1960s ,Mrs Gormley sold the cafe, that had been her family for well over half a century , to Brenda and Gino Berritia who ran the business until the sad demise of one of Wigan's most loved landmarks. I'm sure if it had been in York or Chester there would have been a preservation order on it . Mr and Mrs Berritta went on to open The Lindley Hotel in Parbold ; they also opened Roberto' s Restaurant off King Street .

Halfway along the walkthrough was Forshaws Toy Stall and Dolls Hospital , I remember going with my Mam and sister along with her doll 'Dinah', to have its legs reattached , I think it was Mr Forshaw who performed the operation, he had a sort of hook that stretched the thick elastic band inside Dinah and out on the opposite hip , hey presto ! Dinah was complete again . More difficult procedures, eyes , 'Mama' sounds' the doll had to be admitted and collected at a later date . Many a child would be seen making a fuss at having to leave their beloved doll at the causality department. The operations were not always successful, for instance my cousin left her doll with voice and eye problems at one hospital - there was another inside the Market Hall , the eyes were made to blink but the unfortunate doll never uttered ' Mama ' again!


In the arcade there were stalls of every kind - Aly Khan's knitwear , Margaret Razaks stocking bar, Evelyn's 'Catholic Shop' always busy when religious events took place, Confirmations ,First Holy Communions etc. Umpteen other interesting stalls ,including a hardware shop where you could buy anything from a pin to a tin bath. One shop in particular used to sell fireworks leading up to bonfire night, they were displayed in a case with a glass top . One year I wanted to spend my coppers on ' penny bangers ' my Mam thought otherwise , I left with a packet of sparklers and 2 ' Roman Candles ' !

When not being used for fireworks the glass case was used to display cake decorations - Bride and Groom images to go on the top wedding cakes and so forth. I remember clearly my Auntie Maggie buying a fancy ruff type sash to go round the Christmas cake along with a little snowman and robin from this shop . They were used for many years , nothing thrown away that could be used again in those days !


Another strange fact concerning ' Th' Owd Arcade ' was the pub at each end ' The Legs of Man ' known to all as ' Top Legs ' and ' Bottom Legs ' ,it was in fact one pub, it had the same licensee ' the last one was Mr Rimmer it closed its doors in 1970 ; it was said it was the longest pub in the country ! Another interesting fact Wigan Rugby Club in its short time at Prescott Street 1877 -1889 the team changed in ' The Bottom Legs ' and transported to the ground in a waggon. I imagine bath time would be in a tin bath in front of the fire on arriving home !



Then into Woodcock Street and the sight of our much missed Market Hall, before the entrance there were 2 ice cream vans, Cassinelli's and De Roma's . A tent with with a weighing machine but this was only there on Fridays and Saturdays, 2 elderly ladies ran this ,Agnes and Margret Ramsdale they lived in the Wallgate area and would bring the entire outfit on a hand cart each Friday , I remember they both always wore a beret , strange the things that stick in your mind.

A man selling shoe laces , outside the market, hail rain or snow., taking cover under the canopy in rain.I recall his refrain " Shoelaces 3 pairs for half a crown black or brown ,mix them if you like " , he went on to sell counterfeit razor blades probably as 'slip on 'shoes became more popular !
Talking about the canopies they stood proud outside the old hall entrances , they were incorporated in the new hall . Whatever happens in the redevelopment of The Market Hall and The Galleries It is to be hoped a way can be found to use them in the new design , it would be heartbreaking to see the rusting away in a scrapyard.

Then the big revolving door , all children would go round at least twice ,and a lot more if not stopped . Then the magic of the Hall itself with its cacophony of sounds and different smells emitting from the stalls . The Market Hall always seemed busy , especially on Fridays when the farmers sold their produce on the outside market.

You could buy almost anything , stalls of every description , Lucy's Jewellery , The Pet Shop, Gibson and Young Glass and China Stall ,run by Mr and Mrs Worsley who like Sid Smith in the arcade seemed to know everyone. Roy Hurst's record shop , this was a great boost as it brought in younger customers who might never of thought of shopping there . And of course Santus ( Uncle Joes ) toffee stall . Frank Ryding the newsagent , a great Wigan gentleman who seemed to typify all that is good in a local businesses , nothing too much trouble for Frank. Sutcliffe's Tripe Stall . Peacocks had a large stall and a second one across the aisle . The arrival of The Cheese Cabin was a revelation bringing cheeses most Wiganers had never heard of. I'm sure older readers will remember Julia who worked at Barons Butchers she seemed to know everything that was happening in Wigan, you would often hear people say " Ask Julia she'll know ! "

I know we can't go back in time but I can't help thinking Wigan might be in a better place if much of the redevelopment hadn't taken place and we still had the nooks and crannies of old.

A great read Tom, I haven't seen that one before. Lovely memories and very true about the ''nooks and crannies of old."

That was brilliant, Tom! So many memories. although the DeRoma ice-cream van was Lewis's when I was growing up...my sister-in-law had a job on the Cassinelli's van so I always went to that one. I still go to Frank Ryding's stall when I go to Wigan, (less and less these days as there is sadly nothing to go for now!). His son still puts a little paper band round the newspapers and magazines to keep them neat and tidy on your journey home. Frank once came into Boots when I worked there and I was amazed how small he was....he was actually standing on a raised platform behind the paper stall and I'd thought he was very tall! I remember all the stalls you mention and also Alice's Electrical Stall, Smaile's Butchers, Harold Bradshaw's Menswear and Adams' Stores, where you could still buy Donkey stones and Dolly Blues. I have a dvd of The Market Hall's final few days filmed by my friend Geoff Shryhane . I got it just after the Hall had been demolished and it didn't mean a lot then as I had only seen the stallholders shortly before I got the film, but oh! how wonderful to see it NOW! I think you can now watch it on youtube.

Hello Tom,what a brilliant memory you have..I put a comment on very early this morning but it obviously got lost.
I certainly remember taking my dolls to the Dolls Hospital and watching him pulling on those elastic bands,no doubt it would have been a crotchet hook...I still have a couple of dolls,but no elastic included nowadays.
There was a family of Ramsdales further down from our house in Great George St..but the ones you mention must have been before my time as I don't recognise the names.
The glass case that you mention was like a magnet to me as a child,I was fascinated by the wedding cake decorations.
Getting back to Mr Sid Smith,he was a gent as is his Son Trevor...My Mams brother Tommy hitch hiked all the way to London with Mr Smith years ago to find work....I wonder how many young men would do that now..I really enjoyed reading your memories Tommy..you should write a book,I would certainly buy it.

Veronica Irene and Maureen , thank you for your kind comments. Maureen you are spot on about Syd Smith and his son Trevor . I'm in contact with Trevor he is a true gentleman, a chip of the old block . Trevor has great knowledge of Wigan.

Tommy,some years ago there was a thread all about Mr Smith,Trevor got my phone no. from admin and rang me,we had a lovely chat about his Dad...yes like Father like Son.

American tan tights from Margaret’s stall and today I still use my shopping basket and always get a lot of nice comments. Incidentally one of them I used for domestic science in the 50’s.

Oh what memories. Saturday afternoon getting my "Mersey Beat" magazine from that stall.
I too have a proper basket, a WI friend gave it to me and it is ideal for taking cakes etc to meetings.
Spooky reading these comments as I have just been into King's Lynn and bought some Uncle Joes Mint Balls from our local sweet shop to fill up my tin. Lovely

Thank you Tom, we can always expect a history lesson when you comment its great to read.I took my much loved Teddy bear to the dolls hospital age 6 because he had lost an eye in the wash.I was telling my granddaughter this story, and she didn't believe there was a "dolls hospital" I can now show her all your comments. xx

Thank you for uploading this picture.

Apologises if this has been raised in the various posts on here - was this book stall the same 'Smith(s)' who had the bookshop on Mesnes Street for many years?

I was born in the late 1970s and I believe this arcade had probably long gone by then. Smiths on Mesnes Street was open for many years before they called it a day around 2008.

CJ

CJAlan, yes, it was the same Smith's. Syd ran the stall in The Old Arcade. His son Trevor ran the Mesnes Street bookshop. My daughter worked there for a time before it closed down. The Arcade was demolished in 1971.

Irene

Thanks for the update.

I still miss Smiths bookshop. The downstairs was like a giant newsagents with the rear part selling music and videos.

The upstairs was completely devoted to books in every format. In a way, Smiths would have certainly gave Waterstones a good run for it's money!

I seem to remember Trevor Smith was interviewed by the Wigan Evening News in 2008 when he decided to close the business.

I think one of the reasons for Mr Smith calling it a day was his grievance at Wigan Council for driving the town's shoppers away from Mesnes Street with the recently opened Grand Arcade.

Also the Internet was really taking off in the 2000s, with more and more people purchasing reading material on-line. I simply think Smiths books just struggled to survive.

Considering the other Smiths (WHS) is about to close its doors, there are some really sad and challenging times ahead for the town centre.

CJ

CJAlan,I put a reply on earlier but again it's got lost..just to add that Smiths on Mesnes Street is now run by The Heart Foundation.

It was a lovely
book / stationery shop and It just seemed to expand over the years. A coffee shop was added as well but that may have been when it was sold later on. There was definitely a lot to browse at with the upper floor as well as the ground floor. A better more personal store than WHSmith. I agree when the Grand Arcade came to Wigan it put a lot shops on the skids. Wigan has really lost its identity. One day it may be realised that internet shopping is not the be all and end all.

What about the “blind stall” where you could buy wicker baskets and Walco who sold leather goods?

Yes Valerie,we have been robbed of so many things haven't we.

I remember the stall selling things for the blind,A teacher from Argyle st school used to help on the stall,Ellis Melling.He was a very good man.Were the baskets and wicker goods made at a place in Darlington St?Seem to remember passing on the bus from Hindley.

What was called The Blind Shop was in Darlington St , at the side was the 'Blind Steps'. Used to play on those steps quite regularly.

It was Pw, it was demolished some years ago and houses built on the site. They moved to Metrolite Industries which is a disabled workshop at Lower Ince. They manufacture a lot of products too PVC windows, yard gates, fencing, garden furniture, etc.
https://ince-wigan.cylex-uk.co.uk/company/metrolite-industries-16732017.html

Veronica

Totally agree that Wigan's town centre has lost it's way. Ironically the town's fortunes have nose dived since the Grand Arcade opened in 2007.

The centre of town is quite shocking now and I very rarely venture into Wigan these days unless it's absolutely necessary.

I don't honestly know how the Council will salvage it from it's present state. The redevelopment of the New Market Hall and Galleries in the 1980s did work for over twenty years because Wigan was still a 'vibrant' town centre then.

Sadly, it has not been a vibrant town centre for the last few years - the professionals in the Council's economic and commerce department really have some battles to face if they can improve it with more future redevelopments.

We will wait and see.

CJ

My generation had the best of the town's resources CJ. I am glad I was there at the time. Shops, Picture Houses, Pubs and Dance Halls and the surrounding areas of the woods and Haigh Hall to walk in. Couldn't have asked for more. I don't think the young of today will look back with affection the same way we do.

Totally agree Veronica not just about Wigan but the world in general

I used to buy DC comics from a stall under the canopy outside the market hall in the 60s. Also Russ Winstanley used to have a stall in the 70s selling soul and Tamla records.

I read somewhere the other day, that the town centre is going to be just for leisure ie. Cinema, bowling etc and hospitality, and all the market stalls will be in The Galleries.So! No more high St shops.

Edna

It isn't just Wigan that is struggling. Most other town centre's are really feeling the pinch of the economic down turn. I mentioned Southport in another thread, which is looking rather glum these days.

Even last week, a work colleague mentioned the Trafford Centre is full of empty units and vacant floor space.

The biggest problem town's and shopping centres are facing is that the Internet has become very much a way of life in the last 10-15 years.

Businesses can operate on-line with no overheads, while customers can purchase goods more competitively on-line and have items delivered to their door.

There will still be a market for places like B&M's, Home Bargains and Wilko's as they sell food and household goods at affordable prices, but the 'select' clothing and electrical retailers will struggle to survive on the High Street.

I do hope Wigan's fortunes do improve, but I kind of think the Council professionals are deluded if they think a Cinema and food court will work.

The Robin Park cinema hasn't done great business for a while and I fail to see how a second cinema is going to be of benefit to the people of Wigan.

Edna The trouble is that there are High Street shops in Wigan even a M&S. Thing is that they are not on the High street but in retail parks (Robin Park, Maus Bridge etc) outside the town centre. People put the desire to drive in and out and park the car over everything. Its excatly the same in the nearest town to me (Weston Super Mare). Even in Bristol - which has seen the closure of Debenhams, BHS etc M&S has announced it will shut the huge (lovely) city centre store in January.