Wigan Album

Ian; I believe your closure date is incorrect. The info I rec`d was that it closed just recently.
I much prefer travelling to Manchester via Bolton.
The trains from Wigan Wallgate to Manchester via Bolton start 2 mins.earlier at this time of the year due to leaves on the line.

Crow Nest box closed at midnight on the 28th July 2013...it should have closed around spring time 2013, but because of teething problems with signaling and track it stayed open until the end of July 2013.

I actually believe that the direct Wigan to Manchester journey by train, is the worst train journey in the country...It actually makes you depressed...FACT.

Ian and Colin; have a look at :-
http://www.flickr.com/photos/87851292@N04/9385454012/
Don`t know what TBW stands for but, from the comments, am I right in thinking it was another 3 days after 28th July 2013 when it closed.
Jarvo; what do you mean by `direct`? You can go via Bolton or Atherton and, as I said in my earlier comment, I much prefer travelling to Manchester via Bolton.

Jarvo, worse still is the last train from Manchester to Wigan on a Saturday night!

Ernest: I meant the old express route, via Atherton.

Loz: It is not a journey that I would relish. I'd rather run it home.

good old DMU bring them back they were much better than the 142/156's we have now the sooner they get rid of em the better.

cullie; I don`t know the different types of trains that Northern Rail have, but I`ve been on the very old ones which have just recently been re-furbished inside, so it`s evident that Northern Rail are keeping them. The newest diesel trains that Northern Pail have are air-conditioned. The only one that runs in Lancashire, to my knowledge, is from Manchester to Leeds. I`ve been on several in Yorkshire.

Hiya Ernest,
T.B.W. Basically stands for Temporary Block Working, & in laymans terms they would have been operating a kind of trackside system of operation involving handsignallers using phones,flags,etc & a written paperwork system to safely move trains around.
From what I got told the S&T contractors disconnected the old signalling systems,killed the power to the old signal boxes at Walkden,Atherton & Crow Nest Junc.
The contractors then set about quickly decommissioning them all & stripping them after permanently severing the links.
From what I got told the contractors then ran into teething troubles with the new system & suffered delays for a few days after with the testing & commissioning of the new system & as a result the commissioning work overran so the new gear was not ready in time for the normal rail service,so staff were positioned at regular intervals at strategic locations the side of the line,to provide sufficient headway margin in lieu of actual signals to maintain the rail service.
These handsignallers would have been equipped with phones,flags,etc & paper forms that would have been used as a written signed authority for traincrews to safely move trains from one point to another,under T.B.W regulations.
T.B.W. is effectively used as an emergency manual countermeasure when there is no other normal signalling system available.

Hope this explains the basics of T.B.W. Ernest.

Is that the same as what happens when thieves nick the copper cable? I have sometimes been on the badly delayed trains that are being signaled with flags.

Absolutely correct Baldylocks.
Ernest, the box closed 28 July 2013...I was there!

Yes AP,that is pretty much it,in the event of a serious right side failure/cable theft etc resulting in a major loss of the normal operation of the signalling system T.B.W.is implemented using handsignallers (& route setting agents to set points if required).

Colin,I was on the bridge the day the box closed.

Baldylocks; thanks for your detailed explanation. I did Google TBW see:-
http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/TBW
Colin; so you where there, eh!

Yes I was there Ernest, just to prove doubters like you wrong. Well done Ian and Baldylocks.

Well it is a delight for me to see these photographs. In the late 50's I would be taken by my beloved next door neighbour Bob Partington (2, Hope Street, Hindley), up The Grove, to watch the trains.thunder beneath us. Even now I can hear the " ting ting " from the signal box which meant another train was due. Pure excitement. Pure joy. Such a privileged childhood. NB Has the signal box always been where it is today? I seem to remember it between the fork of the tracks; but memory is such a fickle thing isn't it?

Your memory is quite correct Keith. Do you also remember both routes being four-track?

Dr Keith,
The original crow nest Signal Box was indeed originally in the "Vee" of the junction & was a much bigger Signal Box that was equipped with a 92 lever frame.

The box you see in the photo is the modern BR LMR type 15 replacement signal box that was built on the trackbed of the former fast lines in connection with the (stage C) resignalling works for Warrington Power Signal Box.

The box you see in the photo was opened by BR on the 1st of October 1972 & equipped with a 25 lever frame.

If I remember right, there was a set of catch points as this location.

Sorry Loz, no catch points here, look at now and then photos.

Loz is actually very correct,as there were actually TWO sets of catch points within yards of the box & protecting the junction at Crow Nest Junction (that were installed in the 1970s in connection with the new box).

These catch points were. . .
One set on the Up Main line (located 682 yards from signal CN23)the Up Main Section signal.
The other set was on the Up Branch line (located 360 yards from signal CN20) the Up Branch Section signal.

Both sets were spring loaded & trailable for normal direction movements but set to derail any unauthorised wrong direction or backwards runaway movements made in error,thus providing runback flank protection for the junction against wrong direction runaways.

These unworked points (within the station limits of Crow Nest Junction Box)were however a pain,as whenever a train had to be crossed over from the Up Main or Up Branch to the Down line these catch points had to be set manually on site,then clipped,scotched & secured before the movement could take place.

Why they were never put under the control of the box I will never know.

There were also other catch points on the Up Main line between Hindley & Ince.
One set was near to the site of Hindley No2 box (located 1536 yards from signal CN24)& the other set was just after leaving Ince Station (located 1200 yards from signal WN38 signal).
Spot on Loz

I beg your pardon LOZ.

There was also catch-points on the Whelley loop line, near the road bridge on Warrinton Road, Platt-Bridge...a sign post indicating "CATCH POINTS" stood there years after the line closed.

Video of trap, which is similar, in operation derailing a train, here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Yr5EztEPJS8

Hell's teeth! The driver was slow to shut the regulator, and left the blower on! There's ususally a trackside sign for catch points isn't there?

In the Quorn derailment Loz, it was actually TRAP points (& not Catch points) that were involved.
The Trap points at Quorn did their job correctly & deliberately derailed the train after the signal had been passed at danger with the route not set for some reason.

The main difference between Catch points & Trap points is that Catch points are unworked/unmonitored spring loaded points found on main running lines with gradients steeper than 1 in 260 to prevent unauthorised WRONG direction movements in error.

Trap points are worked/monitored & interlocked points usually found at the exit of sidings or goods loops etc & are to protect the entrance to a main running line from unauthorised RIGHT direction movements in error,(SPADs etc)

Thanks for the detailed explanation, Baldylocks! A tad embarassing for the crew at Quorn I would guess!

Hi Loz,
Not as embarrassing as it must have been for the Signalman on duty in Quorn signal box,who apparently authorised the move past the signal at danger only to not even set the trap points for the move.
He should have set the trap points,checked that they were fitting up correctly,then secured them with clip & scotch before authorising the crew of the Ivatt to pass the siding exit signal at danger.

You would have also thought that the crew of the Ivatt would have had the presence of mind to have at least had a quick look at the facing trap points that they were about to pass over before opening the regulator.

They were after all,right in front of them!

Looks like a catalogue of errors at Quorn that day Loz.

Anyway,it shows that trap points do,do their job & protect a main line from an errant move.

I couldnt help but cringe watching it on You Tube,as I could see which way the Traps were set & knew what was coming.

Ouch!

Hi Baldylocks, you can just see the signalman lurking in the box as the mishap unfolds. Looking more carefully, I can see the linkage from the trap to the box and that it's set to derail mode. You'd think that the ON signal, the trap setting, and the blast on the whistle, would have alerted the signalman to do something! Bizarre. (We'd best be careful as Quorn isn't Wigan and we'll be getting told off)

Hi Loz,
Will not go off topic & keep the thread current to Wigan.

As for the catch points in the Crow Nest area,they have all gone now due to the fact that there are hardly any unfitted (no continuous braked) trains running anymore.

Usually all trains that run on the network are now fitted with some form of continuous air brake or vacuum braking system operating throughout the train,that in the event of a failure in the system,it will fail safe & the brakes will be applied & stay on.

Hi Mr B,
A lot safer these days, but a lot of the excitement went when loose-coupled unfitted freight finished!

The brake system works with the principle that air is needed to release brakes off the wheels, its whats known as a spring brake device. If no air is feed to the wheel cylinders or air pipe should fracture, ie loss of air the brakes would automatically be applied. All HGVs have the same air brake system. IE if you don't couple the air lines upto the trailer on a HGV, you can't drive away...the brakes are locked on.