Wigan Album

Another apology, sorry I meant to write that Dick Barnes was Manager of the Empire Cinema (the Wiend) not the Empress - that was the dance hall.

The gentleman on the right is my late father in law Peter Doherty,a regular in the Crispin and a friend of Dick Barnes.

Hi Bill f, thank you very much for letting me know about your father-in-law, Peter Doherty, as soon as I saw the name it gave me instant recall. I took this photo when I was probably only 10 years of age. I wasn't able to ask my father about the names, he passed away just two years ago aged 93.

Hi Bill and Keith have you any idea what Dick Barnes address was or what road he lived on also do you know what is fathers name was.Dick was afamily member 0ff my fathers side of the family i have been doing family history but dont yet know much about Dick Barnes.My great great grandad was James Barnes who had the Raven pub just around the corner from the crispin and my great grandma was his daughter MARY,i thought maybe your father could have known Dicks father.

Hi jo, i'm afraid I can't ask dad, he passed away two years ago but when I had access last year to online Census records I found a Richard Barnes living with his wife in Kirkless Street, whether it was "your" Richard I don't know but the street is just around the corner from the Crispin.
Using the free online 1881 Census records I've found a James Barnes age 28 (a Bricklayer) living with his wife Elizabeth aged 27 and their family at 12 Kent St., (just off Darlington Street East before its junction with Warrington Lane) they also have a daughter named Mary E. aged 7 (she was born in Ince) and a son, James aged 5 and another daughter Margaret aged 6months, again I've no idea if this rings any bells for you. in my local library I've used the free Ancestry.com and found from the Voters list for 1911, 27 to 29 Birkett Bank A Pub and Shop, Mrs Barnes, there are 7 people in the house, 4 and 3, can't say whether this is 4 males and 3 females or the other way round. I'm sure this doesn't solve much just hope it helps. Dick was a lovely man. Keith

Hi Keith thanks for your reply, yes it is the same Barnes 1881 lived in Kent St,Mary ElizabethAGE 7 was my great grandmother iwas wondering if Richard was her brother James son and my grandfathers cousin,on the photo he looks like he could be about 60ish making his birth date about 1896/7 but you can never tell on these old pics the shop next to the pub {Raven]was a fried fish shop im thinking it means a chippi,if i get the chance i will go to the history shop and have a look 1901 censor but at the moment chemo is stopping me doing what i would like to do,thanking you Jo

Hi Jo, Thanks for your reply. Here’s what’s come up on free BMD :-
BIRTH
June Qtr 1916 Wigan, Richard Barnes, Mother’s maiden name, TAYLOR  8c 60
The only marriages (within a reasonable time frame ) in Lancashire that a James Barnes married a TAYLOR that I’ve found on the free BMD are :-
MARRIAGES for “JAMES BARNES” to a “TAYLOR” in Lancashire
1 June Quarter 1897 James Barnes to Martha Taylor in Bolton 8c 575
LANC BDM add the following :- Church/Register Office - Peel St Paul, Registers at Salford
2 Sept Quarter 1898 James Barnes to Elizabeth Taylor in Haslingden 8e 224 (Accrington/ Bacup way) LANCS BMD add :- Church/Register Office - Haslingden Grane, St Stephen, Registers at - Preston
3 Mar.Quarter 1901 James Barnes to Jane Taylor in Oldham 8d 770
LANCS BDM add the following :- Church/Register Office Waterhead, Holy Trinity Registers at -Oldham
You should be able to verify the birth (or not) of Richard Barnes in 1916 at Wigan Town Hall, the marriage would be a matter I suppose of finding James and his wife in the 1901 or 1911 census and as you say the Wigan History Shop should be ideal for that. Good luck with everything, Keith.
PS If we have the right Richard he would have been about 36 years old at the time of this photo, one year younger than my father.

Hi Jo, Just come across this info' which might be of interest, in 1881 both pubs, the Crispin and the Raven were in existence, here are the details :-
27 Birkett Bank UNINHABITED
29 Birkett Bank George BAUGH Head M 30 Blackrod, Lancashire, Publican & Music Seller 
I've also come across this :- Richard Barnes born 11th April 1916, died January 1984 aged 67.

My wife Pat thinks you are right about Dick living in Kirkless St.
She also said her dad thought your father was the best landlord he had ever known,a true gentleman.

Many thanks Bill f, much appreciate your comments.

Tim Burns is standing next to Dick Barnes.

My great great grand father was called James Barnes (born 1851) and he married Martha Taylor (born 1853) Both were born in Northern Ireland - not sure if its any relation tho :)