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Maypole Pit Disaster My film
Started by: jagman64 (308)   Report abuse
Apologies for any incorrect film but could not find any of the Maypole so used some of a northern colliery of the same period, but all still photographs are of the Maypole

Posted by: johnnybgood (inactive) Report abuse
absolute marvelous film well done, i was a pupil at abram c of e primary school, and in the hall was a massive remembrance picture of the lost 75 men and boys, everyday it was there for us to look at, also in abram church there was a huge lump of coal the largest ever mined from the maypole, and am i right to believe that the mine was worked until the seventies, my ex brother in law said his dad was the last person the leave the maypole, he was the chief electrician, george bridge .......

Posted by: johnnybgood (inactive) Report abuse

Posted by: broady (14097)   Report abuse
I am almost sure it closed in the late 50's. The De Haan factory was going in the 60's. I never recollect seeing either the photo or the lump of coal. There again time plays havoc with the memory. What years did you go to Abram School?

Posted by: dustaf (inactive) Report abuse
Another good one. Jagman.

Posted by: johnnybgood (inactive) Report abuse
i was born in 1960 so it would have been 65 to 71 ...

and it was a massive print the same as on the video .....@ 6.33

Posted by: broady (14097)   Report abuse
If you were born then I am almost sure the Maypole was closed before that. Perhaps someone on here can give us the correct date or what date De Haans opened.

Posted by: johnnybgood (inactive) Report abuse
whats the relation with de-haan and the pit ?

Posted by: broady (14097)   Report abuse
De Haans factory was the site of the old pit baths. Highly unlikely they would have been making tongues whilst the Miners were having a bath. I suspect you weren't from the Dover end of Abram. Bickershaw Lane maybe.

Posted by: bluesman (246) Report abuse
The Maypole closed in 1958 or 59.

Posted by: maggie (511)   Report abuse
my grandad was one of the rescuers - the photo of the group in a line, he is the one one the left. Later on I don't know when he was injured in an accident in he pit, gained some compensation. he died either of TB or silicosis in 1923. I never had the chance to know him

Posted by: broady (14097)   Report abuse
Thanks for that Bluesman. Young upstarts. I don't think they would know their way to Park Lane.

Posted by: johnnybgood (inactive) Report abuse
i used to live on bickershaw lane near davieses farm, i used to play on abram park on park lane, and play round the old pit head gear of the maypole, where kestrils nested, you could also walk from there to bickershaw and come out near bridges farm near the queens ......

Posted by: mojim (1679) Report abuse
Jagman...that is a brilliant bit of filming...you're missing your way..very clever.

Posted by: jagman64 (308)   Report abuse
Thanks for all the comments I was surprised to find almost nothing on youtube about wigan,s mining past , so I thought I,d put that right.

Posted by: tonker (19743)   Report abuse
Wigan hasn't got a 'mining past'. All the pits were elsewhere, not in Wigan, most mining towns were only in the Wigan council area after all the pits had closed.

Wigan was a mill-town, with many mills, one being amongst the biggest in the country. The mills employed many thousands of Wigan people, men and women, and brought much trade into the town.

That's a bit of TRUE Wigan history for you!

It doesn't do any good, teaching people wrong information.

Posted by: johnnybgood (inactive) Report abuse
The first coal mine was established at Wigan in 1450 and at its peak there were 1,000 pit shafts within 5 miles (8 km) of the town centre.[3] Mining was so extensive that one town councillor remarked that "a coal mine in the backyard was not uncommon in Wigan".


Posted by: tonker (19743)   Report abuse
Load of RUBBISH!

I know we've been through this before, but, '5 miles of the town centre' takes you to Hindley, Pemberton, Standish, Haigh, Aspull, Ince, Orrell etc., in fact, all the places that coal mines were, but 5 miles OUT of Wigan and therefore NOT 'IN' IT!

You wouldn't say Eckersleys / Trencherfield / Rylands etc mills were in Hindley, because they were within 5 miles of Hindley centre, would you?
You wouldn't say Central Park rugby ground was in Ince, would you?

No wonder Wigan kids yeds are all mixed up! And half of you lot on here, proclaimed proud Wiganers, don't know where Wigan bloody well is!

Posted by: johnnybgood (inactive) Report abuse
ALLIANCE COLLIERY.........................Crompton Street, Wigan.

CHAPEL COLLIERY............................Wigan Town Centre.


this photo shows collerys in wigan if you save and blow it up you can see another one called mesnes collery right next to the church ......



Posted by: tonker (19743)   Report abuse
You forgot to mention Douglas Bank Colliery, which was the best one of the few. And why was that? Any idea?

Anyway, for the couple of coal mines in Wigan, employing a few hundred locals, there were, literally, dozens of mills. These mills employed many thousands of men and women and were the mainstay of Wigan economy for many years.

Wigan was never a coal mining town. It's main purpose was as a central administration / market / commercial town used by the surrounding towns where the coal mines were.
If it had to be any one particular industry 'town' it was a mill town.

And where do you think the mills got their coal from? Wigan? Where there is none? Don't make me laugh!

Posted by: johnnybgood (inactive) Report abuse
in fact, all the places that coal mines were, but 5 miles OUT of Wigan and therefore NOT 'IN' IT!






Posted by: tuddy (971) Report abuse
Peter Platts colliery, Millgate. Wigan.

Alexandra colliery, Whelley, Wigan.

Giants Hall, Standish Lower Ground, Wigan.

Ince Moss, Ince, Wigan.

Maypole, Abram, Wigan.

Wigan Junction,Bickershaw, Wigan.

Albert Pit, Bickershaw, Wigan.

Just a few off the top of my head, all with a postal address in the coal mining town of Wigan.

Posted by: tonker (19743)   Report abuse
Postal address my Jacksie!

None of those, bar the old favourite 'Peter Platt's Colliery' (which, records show, operated for less than a year and dug out a marine band outcrop) - (that's not what I'd classify as 'coal mining') were in Wigan. And you know it!

Posted by: johnnybgood (inactive) Report abuse
sour grapes

Posted by: tuddy (971) Report abuse
Summersales colliery, Highfield, Wigan.

Malloneies Pit, Wigan.

Rosebridge colliery, Wigan.

The list gose on.

Posted by: johnnybgood (inactive) Report abuse
i think he means a pit under the bees knees ......

Posted by: upthetims (6505) Report abuse

Tuddy,tha's arguing wi a yicker,tonks,who is really a glass back but claims to be a yicker

Posted by: tonker (19743)   Report abuse
Tuddy, you could fill a page with coal mines in other towns all around Wigan. Try naming any 'viable' coal mine which was situated IN Wigan.
The only one any good was Douglas Bank, and that was due to it taking coal towards Pemberton, into the fault.

So, ONE profitable colliery in the town of Wigan. That's not a good 'coal mining past', is it? In fact, it's not a coal mining past AT ALL!

Look at HAYDOCK'S coal mining past. Then again, Haydock had easier access to the coal reserves, and it's a bigger place than Wigan, so it can only be expected to have more coal mines. Haydock also had a canal before Wigan did, for that very reason.

Wigan was a 'mill-town', not a coal mining town.

Posted by: uncle joe (643) Report abuse
Referring to the statement from wiki "The first coal mine was established at Wigan in 1450 and at its peak there were 1,000 pit shafts within 5 miles (8 km) of the town centre."

That means, that on one or more days in history, within a circle that had a diameter of 10 miles, and had its centre in wigan town centre, there were 1000 operating pit shafts. Averaged out, that puts it to 1 shaft every 493 yards. That does not seem very likely to be true by my way of thinking.

Posted by: tuddy (971) Report abuse
Places like Whelley, Ince, Standish Lower Ground, etc are not other towns around wigan, they are part of Wigan, all within a few minuets ride of the town centre. The town of Wigan is a bigger place and has a much larger population than the village of Haydock, therefore all of its collieries were not confined to the town centre, as would be the case in a village, but spread throughout its various districts.

Where were the dozons off mills in Wigan located?

Posted by: tonker (19743)   Report abuse
Tuddy, to get to know the history of the town you love so much, you must first -

Understand the difference in a town and a borough.

Realise that Wigan is a town, not a borough.

Ponder over WHY towns with different names are different places.

And then the penny might drop that Wigan consists of just Wigan, and all the other towns around it are in the Metropolitan Borough OF Wigan, not Wigan.

For instance, you say "Whelley, Ince, Standish Lower Ground, etc are not other towns around Wigan, they are part of Wigan,"

Well, you are very wrong!
Whelley is, of course, part of Wigan. However, Ince in Makerfield is a separate town. Standish Lower Ground is part of Standish, a separate town.
Each are part of the Metropolitan Borough of Wigan, not Wigan.
(Wigan is also an individual component town of the Metropolitan Borough).
They have been part of the Metropolitan Borough of Wigan since 1974 and that was a long time after the coal mines closed down.
The 'Parish' of Wigan is another concept. The towns within it are shown Here. Wigan is one of the towns in it.

Haydock is a bigger place than Wigan is. That is a provable geographical fact.
Haydock had better access to the coal reserves than Wigan had. That's a provable geological fact.

(Just to mix you up) Haydock is not St.Helens, although nowadays it's IN St.Helens. That's because St.Helens, unlike Wigan, is not a town, it's a Metropolitan Borough.
Haydock is not Winwick, although it's in the 'Parish Of' Winwick. Just the same as the towns in the 'Parish Of' Wigan are not Wigan!

You're correct to state that the population of Wigan is, and was, higher than that of Haydock, but population does not reflect size, as in 'area'.
It follows that, whilst the majority of the population of Haydock worked in coal mines, only a small minority of the population of Wigan worked in coal mines, the majority being employed in the many mills which Wigan was famous for.

The websites you quote from, about mining, are mostly untrue. They are written by individuals who 'think' they know a bit, and what it all amounts to is 'local myth'.

I take this opportunity to accuse you of not knowing where Wigan is!

Posted by: jagman64 (308)   Report abuse

Wigan metropolitan borough was created on 1 April 1974 by the Local Government Act 1972. It was formed from the former county borough of Wigan along with other local government units from the administrative county of Lancashire.[2][3] These were the Municipal Borough of Leigh, the urban districts of Abram, Aspull, Atherton, Hindley, Ince-in-Makerfield, Orrell, Standish and Tyldesley. Ashton-in-Makerfield, the Golborne Urban District except for the parish of Culcheth and Glazebury in Warrington, the Higher End part of Billinge and Winstanley Urban District and the civil parishes of Haigh, Shevington and Worthington from the Wigan Rural District were included.
Before its creation, the name Wigan-Leigh was used in the Redcliffe-Maud Report. It was suggested that the new metropolitan borough be named Makerfield. However both names were rejected by a vote of 12 to 2.[4] According to an opinion poll in 2003, 26% of 299 residents surveyed felt they belonged "very strongly" or "fairly strongly" (4% very strongly) to Greater Manchester, 64% (28% very strongly) to the borough of Wigan, and 63% (31% very strongly) to Lancashire.[5]
The metropolitan borough was created from a highly industrialised area of Lancashire that was part of the Lancashire Coalfield and had an important textile industry.

Posted by: johnnybgood (inactive) Report abuse
whats your point tonker, are you trying to say haydocks a more important place than wigan ? its not... but who gives a toss ?

Posted by: tonker (19743)   Report abuse
Jagman - 'Wikipedia' is written by the general public. It is not a reliable source of truth.
ie: Wigan Metropolitan Borough was created in '1972' by the Local Government Act '1972'.
Other than that, the information you've shown is correct.

A point in there about the naming of the Metropolitan Borough is significant to the subject.
If the Metropolitan Borough was named 'Makerfield' like was suggested, all the misunderstandings, about where Wigan is, would never have occurred and there'd be no animosity between areas like Wigan and Leigh.

johnnybgood - I don't remember stating places in order of importance but, while you've mentioned it, I'll say this - Haydock was a much more important coal mining place than Wigan ever was. And Haydock is also bigger than Wigan.

And that is my point. Haydock was a coal mining place, Wigan was a mill town.
That explains why jagman 'was surprised to find almost nothing on youtube about wigan,s mining past'. It doesn't have any!

Posted by: jagman64 (308)   Report abuse
Wikipedia: and other documented source,s have nothing on "Tonker" or what ever his name is, apparently the facts have no meaning to this self proclaimed
historian. From 1066 onwards Tonker,s,
history is correct , forget the history books and all that b**ocks, if you want to know the real history of Wigan ,ask Tonker, because he knows everything! even if he,s wrong.

What we are dealing with here is a classic case of big mouth, small brain.
Ohh and why dont you show us some of your films about Wigan,s past According to Tonker? is it because you can,t? or do you just like getting off, on causing arguments.
People like you make me sick,
I,ll bet you are fat, work at Hitchens foods,and have a bald head.

Posted by: johnnybgood (inactive) Report abuse

Posted by: tonker (19743)   Report abuse
Jagman, I see you've resorted to childish name-calling, due to the fact that you know no better.
Believe what you want to believe, but there's only one true history and it's written on record, not by some local know-it-all.

Posted by: johnnybgood (inactive) Report abuse
was he right though, do you have a bald head and work at hitchens ? lololololololol

Posted by: tonker (19743)   Report abuse
No, although I'm thinning on top, I don't have a bald head and neither do I work at Hitchen's or anywhere of the like.
I'm not fat either!

Posted by: johnnybgood (inactive) Report abuse
is this you tonker getting your i.d. done for hitchens ? lol


Posted by: tuddy (971) Report abuse
tonker, I can assure you that I have'nt quoted from any mining web sites.

You say that Wigan is a town and not a borough. The way I understand it is that Wigan was one of the first boroughs in Lancashire. I think it received its borough charter in the thirteenth century.

So if we accept that Wigan is a borough it follows that the surrounding districts that are a stones throw from the town centre, Ince, Abram, SLG, etc, are included in the borough and not separate towns, and therefore the mines in those districts were in Wigan.

You say that only a small minority of Wigan men worked in coal mining, the majority being employed in the mills. I myself know hundreds of Wiganers who were employed in coal mining, there are eight in my own street, I spoke to another three on Friday night, but I can think of only three people who I know worked in the mills, and one of those was in Rochdale.

I think I am right in saying that at the time of nationalization the Wigan area of the National Coal Board consisted of over thirty collieries.

As you agree that Whelley is part of Wigan can we at least agree that Alexandra colliery, which was located in Whelley, was in Wigan?

Posted by: jarvo (28980)  Report abuse
There were numerous mines in Pemberton and Highfield. Wigan has always been known as a mining town. What else would you call it?

Blundells was one of the biggest mines in the country in its heyday. That was in Pemberton; about a mile from the border of Kitt Green.

Which is actually in Pemberton and a bit in Orrell...

Who gives a damn where the buggers were, they're gone now...

Posted by: tonker (19743)   Report abuse
"Wigan has always been known as a mining town. What else would you call it"?

Wigan was a MILL TOWN. LOADS of Mills, not many collieries.

If you were to say, Wigan County Borough was a coal mining area, you would be correct.
That's because Pemberton, along with it's coal mines, was part of Wigan County Borough. But the coal mines weren't in Wigan, they were in Pemberton.

If you were to say, the Wigan area was a coal mining area, you'd also be correct.
That's because there were many coal minea around the Wigan 'area'. But not in Wigan.

You've just posted a thread saying you 'live in Pem and it's down to Wigan because Pem is on a hill'.
That statement shows that you consider Pemberton to be 'out of' Wigan, seeing as you have to 'go to' Wigan from there.

You are a hypocrite!

Posted by: jarvo (28980)  Report abuse
Isn't Tottenham in London? Are they a London club? Isn't Pemberton part of Wigan? No...?

Hypocrite? Me? Am just a Pembertonian, born, bred, and sometimes buttered...

Posted by: tonker (19743)   Report abuse
No, Tottenham is NOT in London. It's as much NOT in London as Wigan is NOT in Manchester and Pemberton is NOT in Wigan!

Posted by: carol gr (910)  Report abuse
Why does Tonker spoil threads?

Posted by: uncle joe (643) Report abuse
Its not Tonker that spoils threads, its these people that cant separate geographical fact from fiction.

Posted by: johnnybgood (inactive) Report abuse
yeh.... leave tonker alone, allright he,s thinnng on top but he knows his 16th century boundaries ...

Posted by: tonker (19743)   Report abuse
Boundaries of places have never changed.

What changes, quite frequently, are 'local authority ward boundaries'.
Areas of local government authority and areas of election are changed by the Boundaries Commission.

Posted by: pisolivadi (1812)  Report abuse
Hiya Tonker,
Everybody knows what you're on about, pal, but most are not as boundary-pedantic or borough-phobic as your good self.
In fact they're pretty relaxed about it.

eg. I hail from Ince, but don't feel obliged to draw the distinction between Ince and Wigan when I'm asked casually where I come from from by a fellow drinker, say, in a Greek taverna or, under the stands at the Adelaide Oval.
I'd just say ''Wigan''. If I then began to clarify, well specifically that it wasn't true , and really I'm from an adjacent less populace place called Ince where there were a lot more pits at one time, there's a good chance their eyes would glaze and friendship would unlikely flourish.

That said, I'm impressed with your knowledge, so I have two questions for you and am genuinely interested in your opinion. One easy, I guess, but to which I know not the answer... Where is Makerfield?
Secondly where is the bounnary between Higher and Lower Ince?
PS Sorry this is off topic.
Thank you for posting the historical film Jagman

Posted by: carol gr (910)  Report abuse
I'm not having a go at Tonker, it's just that once he gets into his boundary rants, I lose the will to live and will give up reading what started off as an interesting subject

Posted by: pisolivadi (1812)  Report abuse
Incredible to think that at the time of the Maypole disaster, there were 25,000 employees in the pits in the Wigan area.
Communities must have lived in contant fear of explosions. Owners put profits before people and the battle for workmen's compensation was only won long after the 1908 Maypole disaster.
I read recently that FULL records ( nos killed and injured) in pit disasters were not kept when ten or less miners were involved. However I can't verify this.

Thanks v much for the post.

Posted by: tuddy (971) Report abuse
Even after workmen's compensation was won by the trade unions some employers tried to " persuade " miners to sign forms exempting them from compensation. It was a long and bitter struggle for fair wages and conditions. We should be proud of the men and women who won the things we take for granted today, such as sick pay, holiday pay,health and safety legislation,etc.

Posted by: tonker (19743)   Report abuse
Pisolivaldi, the Mines Inspectorate was created in the 1800's and all deaths and serious injury had to be reported, by law. Compensation funds, for miners dependents, were in existence then.

Posted by: pisolivadi (1812)  Report abuse
The compensation funds were pretty meagre, though Tonker as you'll know.

Here, here Tuddy.

The risk ratio of an accident, serious injury or death in the pits at the turn of the century was one in eight or nine. Conditions were so appalling.
Reports suggest that it was commonplace for insurance companies to withold payouts to depedents following an explosion underground unless or until a body was retrieved from underground.

In common with many on WW, I'm from mining stock. Me dad worked underground from 1920 to 1968. When I left school and got an application form for start at the NCB Old Boston training Centre, he said , ''throw that in t'fire, lad; dust not think there's bin enough in't pit from ar family awready. Tha not gooin' and thats it.

Posted by: kathhwal (398) Report abuse
Broady I remember my Aunty Winnie telling me that the DeHaan factory was built on the old Maypole Colliery site, she work there as the Canteen Manager until DeHaans moved their location.

Posted by: tuddy (971) Report abuse
tonker, is Old Boston training centre still standing? the last time I was round there it was derelict, shame to see it like that, I remember it when it was buzing,hundreds of lads all being trained for a guaranteed job. I bet there's no where in the country like that today.

Posted by: johnnybgood (inactive) Report abuse
where did de haans go too ? it turned into a curry place after de haans, was it pataks ?

Posted by: broady (14097)   Report abuse
It was Pataks but they opened a new factory at Leigh so I don't know what is there now. Come to think of it there are a lot of new houses there so maybe everything has been demolished.

Posted by: vera howarth (2584)   Report abuse
pisolivadi-Makerfield is an area within the historic boundaries of the West Derby hundered.,of which Wigan and it's surrounding areas were part.The name is still used today to differentiate between places with the same names but different locations.eg.Ashton in makerfield-Ashton under Lyne, Ince in Makerfield-Ince Blundell.

Posted by: pisolivadi (1812)  Report abuse
thanks vera.

Posted by: tonker (19743)   Report abuse
Only Ince isn't in Makerfield anymore.

Ruddy, Old Boston has been demolished and an industrial unit built on the sit.

Posted by: tuddy (971) Report abuse
Cheers tonker, got some good memories of that place.

Posted by: tonker (19743)   Report abuse
Me too! I worked there, for twelve months or so, on starting back at work after I'd been off 13 months with a broken neck, skull, jaw and brain damage!
They wouldn't let me back to the pit until I'd been back to Boston for a while. Rather kind of them, what? Many firms would have fired me off straight away! Mind you, most of the instructors were only there on a token!

Posted by: rio caroni (5077)  Report abuse
Born in Pem, Live in Newtown but I Am A WIGANER although some folk think they can convince you otherwise

Posted by: tonker (19743)   Report abuse
Bugger off!

If they said that anyone originating from Wigan had to pay a council tax surcharge of £50 a year, for the privilege, you'd soon be shouting "Me? No! I'm from Pemberton"!

"First they came for the Wiganers
and I did not speak out - because I was not a Wiganer".

Posted by: poppy (437) Report abuse

The mills in Wigan were mainly filled with women the men were mainly down the pit...in Wigan or a district of Wigan.

Tonker seeing your so wise could you explain why the folk who live in Haydock call it Haddock?

Posted by: tonker (19743)   Report abuse
Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see, Poppy.

'District of Wigan'???? It's either Wigan or it's not.

As for Haydock folk calling it Haddock, I think you refer to the older element there. The old (owd) men would pronounce (pronaaaince) it Hadduck. It's the old Lancashire dialect, innit.
It's rather like Wigan folk saying Wiggin.

Posted by: poppy (437) Report abuse
Nearly all towns have districts for the simple reason we all can't live in the centre, maybe you think Wigan is village?
There's a big difference in saying Wiggin which does sound like Wigan and Haddock which sounds nothing like Haydock, it's a bit fishy ain't it?

Posted by: tonker (19743)   Report abuse
Poppy, learn what a 'district' is. Then you'll find that 'districts of Wigan' are Swinley, Springfield, Beech Hill, Poolstock, Scholes etc. etc. etc.. all are in Wigan.

The coal mines were in a 'district of' the 'County Borough of Wigan' from 1904, ie: Pemberton.

Ince in Makerfield, Standish, Orrell, Ashton in Makerfield, Hindley, Golborne etc., towns where the coal mines were, only became 'districts of' the 'Metropolitan Borough of Wigan' in 1972.

So, what you should have said was - "The mills in Wigan were mainly filled with women the men were mainly down the pit...in Wigan or 'a coal mining town outside of' Wigan".

Re: Haydock being called Haddock, tell me this -

Why do Wiganers call their bike a baaaike, laaaike?
Why do they turn raaaight instead of right?
And what's a 'bonk', or a 'waz' all about?

Posted by: poppy (437) Report abuse
Tonker think you've got mistaken with St Helens twang, my neighbour is from there and it's her who draws words out..like dower for door and flooower floor.

Posted by: trixie (4945)   Report abuse

I remember seeing a newspaper cutting of my grandmother holding my mam as a baby stood on the "pit brew"but the photo was'nt clear enough to see if she was on there.
I think my Grandad was involved some way.
I'm not sure what happened to it.

Posted by: tonker (19743)   Report abuse
Poppy, you're right about how St.Helensers say floor and door. They also say 'sower' for sore, 'mower' for more and 'fower' for four.
I believe it originates from the old coal miner's / farmers / Lancashire dialect

Shut'dooower! On t'flooower. Dust want sum mooower? Tha's sunbrunt, a'll bet that's sooower!

But, I'm not mistaken, as that's not 'drawing words out', it's pronouncing them differently.

Wiganers draw certain words out and add letters to others that shouldn't be there. ie:- Daaar for door and flaaar for floor and Merrydoyn Caaaider for Merrydown Cider.

But hey! that's the way a lot of people from Wigan speak. And you can always tell where someone is 'from' by the way they speak.

St.Helens though, covers a large area, as does Wigan Borough, it has several accents and they all sound different.
For instance, Downall Greeners sound different than Rainhillers who, in turn, sound different than Newtoners. But they're all in St.Helens.
Shevingtoners sound different than Wiganers who, in turn, sound different than Leythers and them lot in Tyldesley sound like Mancs.!

Posted by: İartİ (6154) Report abuse
That's the worst example in print that I've ever seen of any of the Wigan & district dialects....Gav old boy.

As far as Stellins dialect goes, someone once said to me:

"They sound like Scousers wi' their yeds kicked in"

Posted by: tonker (19743)   Report abuse
That's a typical opinion of someone who 'thinks' they are a Wiganer, but aren't!

Like I said, Art, you can't classify a 'St.Helens' accent at all. The reason being is that St.Helens covers such a large area, stretching from Rainford to Rainhill and Newton to Knowsley, that there are several variations. Whereas, Wigan has it's own accent.

As far as Wiggin dialect goes, someone once said to me:

"They sound like Bowtoners wi' their yeds kicked in"

Posted by: tuddy (971) Report abuse
If you want to know where someone is from, ask them to say "dirty purple curtain". A Wiganer will say "durti purpil curtin". Someone from Liverpool would say "dirtee perrple curtn", a Boltoner would say "dirrti purrpil currtin. How would you pronounce it?

Posted by: tonker (19743)   Report abuse
No. A Wiganer would say "durti purpil curtin, laaaike".

Posted by: tetter (116) Report abuse

The company I work for own lots of land in and around Wigan Town Centre, their early family mined coal within yards of Wigan Town Centre i.e. bottom of King Street and Library Street and beyond it was reported when the former Wigan baths were under construction building was delayed because of the amount of coal that needed to be removed before the foundations could be laid.
The mines were owned by quite a few different families, these mines were know as bottle pits hence the expression "a coal mine in the backyard was not uncommon in Wigan" most of Wigan still stands on close to the surface coal, if you go into Haigh Hall there are two huge vases/jardinières made from coal mined from Town Centre bottle mines.
If there weren’t any pits in Wigan, why bother building a tippler (Wigan Pier) 500 yards from the town centre, surely they could have built it; say Dover Lock or Ince or anywhere close to the canal instead of hauling it all the way into Wigan for loading to barges?
Standish used to have a minimum 6 pits:
Bradley Hall.
Chisnall Hall.
Giant's Hall.
John Pit.
Probaly more but I don't remember them, but all in Wigan.

Posted by: tetter (116) Report abuse
A Wiganer would say " sithi uh durty purpul curtin"

Posted by: tonker (19743)   Report abuse
Tetter, please understand what I'm saying. ANY 'coal' ever found near the surface in Wigan was cannel, or DIRT as it's known today. The stuff that has to be taken out of the coal supplied to power stations and factories.
That's because Wigan stands on what was a seabed millions of years ago.
The quality coal seams (known as the coal reserves) are accessible in Pemberton. They are also accessible in Standish.

Neither Standish or Pemberton are Wigan.

The Douglas Bank Colliery was sunk near a known fault. The mine was driven west, into the fault and into the coal.
East of the fault, the coal seams are 1800 feet further down than they are to the west.

The reason for the tippler at Wigan Pier (500 yards from the town centre) was to transfer coal from the Winstanley Colliery owned rail line onto the canal.

You can list as many pits as you like in Standish but, if they were in Standish, they weren't in Wigan!

PS. There's been, at least, three 'Car Trailer Manufacturers' in Wigan, during my lifetime, as I know of. But does that mean Wigan will go down in history as a 'Car Trailer manufacturing town'?
Santus toffee factory has made more toffee than any Wigan coal mine produced coal. They've employed a lot more people than any Wigan coal mine ever did, too. Does that make Wigan a 'Toffee manufacturing town'?

Wigan is a small town that was full of mills, during the industrial revolution and afterwards. It was a 'mill-town'.
It's recognised as such in recorded history.

Posted by: tuddy (971) Report abuse
In Alan Davies's book, " The Wigan Coalfield", cannel is described as "the choicest coal in England"

Posted by: tonker (19743)   Report abuse
Well it's not. It's shit! Take it from me, if it got mixed with the supply to Fiddler's Ferry power station, from Parkside Colliery, the manager would be on the phone immediately and Roy Derbyshire would get a good bollocking for it.

You can ask Bentlegs!

Alan Davies's book????? He knows nowt! He's just another one with his head up his arse, because he can copy things and make a book out of it. The Wigan coalfield indeed!

Posted by: tetter (116) Report abuse

Cannel coal

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Cannel coal, also known as candle coal, is a type of coal, also classified as terrestrial type oil shale, with a large amount of hydrogen, which burns easily with a bright light and leaves little ash.

Cannel coal consists of micrinites, macerals of the exinite group, and certain inorganic materials. Cannel coal usually occurs at the top or bottom of other coals. The excess of hydrogen in a coal, above the amount necessary to combine with its oxygen to form water, is known as disposable hydrogen, and is a measure of the fitness of the coal for use in gas-making. This, although of very small value as fuel, commands a specially high price for gas-making. Cannel is more compact and duller than ordinary coal, and can be wrought in the lathe and polished.

In 1540, an antiquary named John Leland reported that Sir Roger Bradshaigh had discovered a plentiful shallow seam of smooth, hard, Cannel Coal on his estate, near Haigh, Greater Manchester. The deposit came to be known as the Great Haigh fault. The shallow depth of the Cannel meant that it was suitable for the simple surface mining methods available at that time. It could be worked and carved, and was an excellent light fuel which burned with a bright flame, it was easily lit and left virtually no ash.

You see; it is refered to as "COAL" and not S**t

and not one mention about Bent Legs

Posted by: tonker (19743)   Report abuse
Tetter, don't try to teach your grandmother to suck eggs. There's a good chap.

Posted by: İartİ (6154) Report abuse
Tetter. Standish pits were all closed before Standish was included into Wigan Metro district. The list you give has discrepancies:
Standish...No pit of that name.
Chisnall Hall...Coppull.

SOME pits in Standish (not all):
Robin Hill.
Harbour Lane.
Standish Hall.
Gidlow Pit.
Fan pit.
Brimlows Pit.......Then the three together:
Giants Hall...(Billypit)
All three,sunk coincidentally by John William Taylour.

All plus hundreds of Bellpits, even around my house, coal is not much more than six feet below the surface...SLG

There were some Wigan pits, beside Douglas Bank & Platts, three where Tesco is now around Water Heyes.

Posted by: tuddy (971) Report abuse
Apparently cannel from THE WIGAN COALFIELD was exported to France, Italy, and America.

Posted by: tetter (116) Report abuse
Tonker old thing, I.m not trying to teach you anything.
It seems you already know everything, I just can't get my head round every one else being out of step.

Any how why get so up tight over a trivial thing such as what Wigan suburb is actually in Wigan Town.

Posted by: İartİ (6154) Report abuse
The Wigan 2ft seam down Johnpit, had between 6 & 8 inches of cannel on top. This was seperated out & the Electric Shop where I worked, being at Taylor pit, we burned cannel or Kennel,(as it was called locally) for years.
It was a hot coal but made plenty white dusty ash..

Posted by: İartİ (6154) Report abuse

Posted by: İartİ (6154) Report abuse

Posted by: İartİ (6154) Report abuse
didn't register the first attempt at posting....Doh!!

Posted by: Chris-F (18) Report abuse
Video isn't available anymore. Any chance it can be reuploaded?

Posted by: tonker (19743)   Report abuse
Rooooooy Derbyshire! ...... Rooooooy Derbyshire!


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