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Lyon

Started by: christine marsden (739) 

Anyone with 1851,61,71 and 81 census info?
Frederick Lyon circa 1850?ish,
Liverpool area? Married 1871 Mary Ann galliers in sefton,Liverpool,
He was a station master later in life, probably Bolton area,

Started: 3rd Jan 2016 at 14:08

Posted by: Jazzy (8656) 

Christine, I don't have access to census but found this which may help.

Frederick Lyon
England and Wales Census, 1881
Name Frederick Lyon
Event Type Census
Event Date 1881
Event Place Turton, Lancashire, England
Registration District Bolton
Gender Male
Age 31
Marital Status (Original) Married
Occupation Raily Station Master
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Birth Year (Estimated) 1850
Birthplace Ormskirk, Lancashire, England
Page Number 1
Registration Number RG11
Piece/Folio 3829/23
Affiliate Record Type Household
HOUSEHOLD

ROLE

GENDER

AGE

BIRTHPLACE

Frederick Lyon Head M 31 Ormskirk, Lancashire, England
Mary Ann Lyon Wife F 31 Llanterdyne ?, Herefordshire, England
Frederick Wm Lyon Son M 9 Waterloo, Lancashire, England
Arthur James Lyon Son M 5 Turton, Lancashire, England
Helen Louise Lyon Daughter F3 Turton, Lancashire, England
John Henry Lyon Son M 1 Turton, Lancashire, England



Frederick Lyon
England and Wales Census, 1901
Name Frederick Lyon
Event Type Census
Event Date 31 Mar 1901
Event Place Turton, Lancashire, England
County Lancashire
Civil Parish Turton
Ecclesiastical Parish Bradshaw St Maxentins
Sub-District Turton
Registration District Bolton
Gender Male
Age 51
Occupation RAILWAY STATION MASTER
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Birth Year (Estimated) 1850
Birthplace Ormskirk, Lancashire
Schedule Type 26
Page Number 5
HOUSEHOLD

ROLE

GENDER

AGE

BIRTHPLACE

Frederick Lyon HeadM 51 Ormskirk, Lancashire
Mary Ann Lyon Wife F 51 Ludlow, Salop
Frederick Wm Lyon Son M 29 Turton, Lancashire
Arthur Jas Lyon Son M 25 Turton, Lancashire
Helen Louisa Lyon Daughter F 23 Turton, Lancashire
John Henry Lyon Son M 21 Turton, Lancashire
Chas Elliott Lyon Son M 14 Turton, Lancashire

Replied: 3rd Jan 2016 at 14:37

Posted by: Jazzy (8656) 


Frederick Lyon
England and Wales Death Registration Index 1837-2007
Name Frederick Lyon
Event Type Death
Registration Quarter Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration Year 1930
Registration District Bolton
County Lancashire
Event Place Bolton, Lancashire, England
Age (available after 1866) 80
Birth Year (Estimated) 1850
Volume 8C
Page 519
Line Number 115

Replied: 3rd Jan 2016 at 14:48

Posted by: Jazzy (8656) 

Frederick Lyon
England and Wales Census, 1861
Name Frederick Lyon
County Lancashire
Event Type Census
Event Date 1861
Sub-District 8 Ormskirk
Parish Ormskirk
Registration District Ormskirk
Gender Male
Age 11
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Birthplace Ormskirk, Lancashire
Schedule Type Household

not sure about this one!
Frederick Lyon
England and Wales Census, 1911
Name Frederick Lyon
Event Type Census
Event Date 1911
County Lancashire
Parish Turton
Sub-District Turton
Registration District Bolton
Gender Male
Age 61
Birthplace Nantwich, Lancashire
Record Type Household

Replied: 3rd Jan 2016 at 15:04
Last edited by Jazzy: 3rd Jan 2016 at 15:11:40

Posted by: christine marsden (739) 

Thank you jazzy,on the 1861 for Frederick does it give parents?

Replied: 3rd Jan 2016 at 15:14

Posted by: Jazzy (8656) 

Hi Christine, no it doesn't, but I will keep looking.

Found his wedding which I think you already have


Frederick Lyon
England and Wales Marriage Registration Index
Name Frederick Lyon
Event Type Marriage
Registration Quarter Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration Year 1871
Registration District West Derby
County Lancashire
Event Place West Derby, Lancashire, England
Volume 8B
Page 798
Line Number 74

Frederick Lyon probably married one of the following people
Name Mary Jane Edgcombe
Name Mary Ann Galliers
Name John Ivison

Replied: 3rd Jan 2016 at 15:29

Posted by: LEP1950 (746)

Info from the 1861 census (ancestry:

William Lyon34
Nancy Lyon34
Frederick Lyon11
James Lyon7
Jane Lyon5
John H Lyon3
Eliza Lyon1
Mary Chatman74

The family lived at “The Windmill” Beerhouses in Ormskirk.
William and Nancy were both born in Bolton. William was a ropemaker.

Mary Chatman was a lodger from Yorkshire.

Linda

Replied: 3rd Jan 2016 at 21:23

Posted by: mygriffiths (1216)


Lancashire OPC shows Frederick was born before mother Nancy married
Baptism: 8 Jul 1849 St Peter and St Paul, Ormskirk, Lancashire, England
Frederick Fogg - [Child] of Nancy Fogg
Abode: Ormskirk
Occupation: Spinster
Baptised by: E J Hornby, Vicar
Register: Baptisms 1844 - 1855, Page 239, Entry 1910
Source: LDS Film 1849665
Marriage: 27 Jan 1853 St Peter and St Paul, Ormskirk, Lancashire, England
William Lyon - 26, Roper, Bachelor, Ormskirk
Nancy Fogg - (X), 20, Spinster, Ormskirk
Groom's Father: William Lyon, Parish Beadle
Bride's Father: John Fogg, Weaver
Witness: John Lyon; James Dixon
Married by Banns by: W.E.Rawsthorne Vicar
Register: Marriages 1846 - 1853, Page 218, Entry 436
Source: LDS Film 1849665

Replied: 3rd Jan 2016 at 21:37

Posted by: mygriffiths (1216)

1851
Name Age
John Fogg 55 widower Silk weaver
Nancy Fogg 22 Silk weaver
Elizabeth Fogg 19 Silk weaver
Reuben Fogg 15 Shoe maker
Samuel Fogg 13
Frederick Fogg 1 grandson

Replied: 3rd Jan 2016 at 21:51

Posted by: mygriffiths (1216)

1871
Frederick Fogg age 21 sailor described as a visitor at 3 Wigan Road Ormskirk

Replied: 3rd Jan 2016 at 21:58

Posted by: LEP1950 (746)

Oh mygriffiths, you've beaten me to it. I was just about to write all that up about Frederick Fogg!!

Here are the banns of the parents' marriage:

Banns: St Peter and St Paul, Ormskirk, Lancashire, England
William Lyon - Roper, Ormskirk
Nancy Fogg - Spinster, Ormskirk
First Reading: 9 Jan 1853; Read By: Hutton Rowe, Curate
Second Reading: 16 Jan 1853; Read By: JT Wareing
Third Reading: 23 Jan 1853; Read By: JT Wareing
Register: Banns 1843 - 1866, Page 182, Entry 364
Source: LDS Film 1849664

So, Christine, all that above ought to help you to get further!!

Linda
(and all the best, mygriffiths. I haven't been active here for a while).

Replied: 3rd Jan 2016 at 22:08

Posted by: LEP1950 (746)

For Jazzy,

In 1911 Frederick Lyon was living with his wife and sister-in-law Margaret Galliers at Bromley Cross Station house in the civil parish of Turton. The birthplace is Ormskirk, but it has been incorrectly transcribed as Dunkirk (!)

Good night, all!

Replied: 3rd Jan 2016 at 22:16
Last edited by LEP1950: 3rd Jan 2016 at 22:16:55

Posted by: mygriffiths (1216)

1841
Name Age
John Fogg 46 silk weaver
Eliza Fogg 40
Henry Fogg 20
Nancy Fogg 14
John Fogg 12
Betty Fogg 10
Ann Fogg 8
Ruben Fogg 6
Samuel Fogg 4

Replied: 3rd Jan 2016 at 22:19

Posted by: mygriffiths (1216)

Happy New Year to you Linda.
A family tree on ancestry has Nancy's mother as Eliza Greenall 1801-1844 and Nancy's death 1902 in Salford

Replied: 3rd Jan 2016 at 22:28

Posted by: Jazzy (8656) 

Mygriffiths , LEP1950, you guys/gals are awesome!

Replied: 3rd Jan 2016 at 22:32

Posted by: mygriffiths (1216)

1841
William's parent are also silk weavers in Church Street Ormskirk
Name Age
William Lyon 40
Elizabeth Lyon 45
Henry Lyon 20
William Lyon 14
John Lyon 11

Replied: 3rd Jan 2016 at 22:36

Posted by: mygriffiths (1216)

1881 at Bromley Cross Station House
Name Age
Frederick Lyon 31
Mary Ann Lyon 31
Frederick Wm. Lyon 9
Arthur James Lyon 5
Helen Louise Lyon 3
John Henry Lyon 1

Replied: 3rd Jan 2016 at 22:38

Posted by: Jazzy (8656) 

Told you they were awesome!

Replied: 3rd Jan 2016 at 22:43

Posted by: mygriffiths (1216)

Thank you Jazzy.
I hope this is all useful and interesting to Christine.

Replied: 3rd Jan 2016 at 22:56

Posted by: Jazzy (8656) 

I'm sure it will be mygriffiths. I don't subscribe, so the info I can find is very limited.

Hats off to you and LEP1950 for the support you give to other posters. well done

Replied: 3rd Jan 2016 at 23:12

Posted by: christine marsden (739) 

Thank you all so much,once again, x Chris

Replied: 4th Jan 2016 at 10:24

Posted by: LEP1950 (746)

Thank you for the New Year wishes, mygriffiths and the same to you. I hope lots of people can be helped on this website in 2016!

Christine, regarding what mygriffiths said about John Fogg and Eliza Greenhall. They seem to have married at St Peter, Bolton le Moors on September 14th 1818. There is a scan of the parish register on ancestry. I would try to pass it on to you if I knew your email.

Here's the short version:

Name: John Fagg
Marriage Date: 14 Sep 1818
Parish: Bolton le Moors, St Peter
Parish as it Appears: Bolton-le-Moors
Spouse: Eliza Greenhall
Reference Number: GB127.L243/1/4/14

(Manchester, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1930 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2013.)

The surname has been transcribed incorrectly. The register says "Fogg".

Linda

Replied: 4th Jan 2016 at 21:29

Posted by: LEP1950 (746)

Baptism of John Fogg:
Name: John Fogg
Baptism Date: 25 Oct 1795
Parish: Ormskirk, Lancashire, England
Father's name: Henry Fogg
Mother's name: Catharine Fogg
Register Type: Parish Register
Reference Number: Pr 2886/8

(Lancashire, England, Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1538-1812 [database on-line]. Provo, UT: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2012.)

Again there is a scan of the register on ancestry if you are interested.

Linda

Replied: 4th Jan 2016 at 21:35

Posted by: LEP1950 (746)

From Lan OPC:

MARRIAGE of HENRY FOGG and CATHARINE BERLEY:

Marriage: 5 Jan 1795 St Peter and St Paul, Ormskirk, Lancs.
Henry Fogg - (X), this parish
Catharine Berley - (X), this parish
Witness: William Johnson; Hugh Garrat
Married by Banns by: J Darcey Curate
Register: Marriages 1784 - 1812, Page 113, Entry 457
Source: LDS Film 1849664

CHILDREN:

Baptism: 25 Oct 1795 St Peter and St Paul, Ormskirk, Lancs.
John Fogg - Son of Henry Fogg & Catharine
Abode: Lath[om]
Register: Baptisms 1794 - 1812, Page 8, Entry 50
Source: LDS Film 1849663

Baptism: 21 Mar 1798 St Peter and St Paul, Ormskirk, Lancs.
Betty Fogg - Daughter of Henry Fogg & Catharine
Abode: Lath[om]
Register: Baptisms 1794 - 1812, Page 18, Entry 25
Source: LDS Film 1849663

Baptism: 30 Jul 1800 St Peter and St Paul, Ormskirk, Lancs.
Ellen Fogg - Daughter of Henry Fogg & Catharine
Abode: Lath[om[
Register: Baptisms 1794 - 1812, Page 28, Entry 38
Source: LDS Film 1849663

Baptism: 8 Dec 1805 St Peter and St Paul, Ormskirk, Lancs.
William Fogg - Son of Henry Fogg & Catharine
Abode: Orms[kirk]
Register: Baptisms 1794 - 1812, Page 53, Entry 33
Source: LDS Film 1849663

Baptism: 14 Aug 1808 St Peter and St Paul, Ormskirk, Lancs.
Henry Fogg - Son of Henry Fogg & Catharine
Abode: Orms[kirk]
Register: Baptisms 1794 - 1812, Page 69, Entry 52
Source: LDS Film 1849663

Baptism: 26 Jun 1812 St Peter and St Paul, Ormskirk, Lancs.
James Fogg - Son of Henry Fogg & Catharine
Abode: Orms[kirk]
Register: Baptisms 1794 - 1812, Page 94, Entry 29
Source: LDS Film 1849663

Replied: 4th Jan 2016 at 21:47

Posted by: LEP1950 (746)

Catharine Fogg nee Berley was still alive in 1841 when she was living in Moss Street, Ormskirk and listed as being 70 years of age. However, ages were rounded down and so she may have been up to 74 (or even older). She died on April 9th, 1849 and the parish register states that she was 84 (?). I haven't been able to find a birth, but she may not have been born as Berley or she may not have been born in Lancashire. If we presume that she was born in the 1760s, there are a couple of Catharines in the south of England. She says she was born in Lancashire in the 1841 census, but who knows whether that was true.

Henry may have been buried in Ormskirk in 1817, aged 61. This would place his birth around 1756. There is no definite information pointing to his birth. He was probably not born in Ormskirk. There is a Henry Fogg born to Henry Fogg in 1758 in St Helens, but I don't know whether this is him. I have a feeling his father's name may have been John.

So that looks like the end of the line there.

Linda

Replied: 4th Jan 2016 at 22:37

Posted by: LEP1950 (746)

Going back to Eliza Greenall, it looks like she was christened in a non-Conformist church (Dukes Alley Independent, Bolton le Moors) on December 23rd 1798. She was born on 24th November 1798. Unfortunately no parents' names are mentioned in the record.
She died in Ormskirk in 1844.

L.

Replied: 4th Jan 2016 at 23:12

Posted by: christine marsden (739) 

Thank you Linda,,it's for my friends tree,she thinks she originated from the Bowes_Lyon family,wishful thinking!!!!, she won't believe that Frederick Lyon 1849, was illegitimate,and born Freddie fogg !!!! Lol
Will take some convincing that he's the right one,but he is!!!she told me he was station master at Bolton. We all have skeletons in the cupboard!!!! Think its great!!! Sex outside marriage isn't that new! ¡Been going on forever!
Found my grandfather was illig,and born 14 months before they married,and registered in mothers name,so will never know whether he was an Alker or an Edgar!!!! Great stuff!
Thanks again for your help, Chris x x

Replied: 5th Jan 2016 at 09:48

Posted by: LEP1950 (746)

For Christine,

I know what it's like trying to convince others. People believe what they want to believe. Anyway, I'm convinced that the above details are accurate.

Since you aren't researching your own line and your friend is only interested in "Bowes-Lyon" information, I'll leave it at that then for now.

You're right about the skeletons. I have enough of my own!!!

Best,
Linda

Replied: 5th Jan 2016 at 10:33

Posted by: christine marsden (739) 

Linda, yes I have given her the info, not impressed!!!
Shown her all the census and opc info,she convinced now,that she's not descended from royalty!!!
Thank you Linda once again x

Replied: 5th Jan 2016 at 19:25

Posted by: christine marsden (739) 

linda,also did her mums tree equally as bad,she said her relative came down from Scotland and he was calléd " Black Dougal" ,a big clan up there,turns out he was a miner from standish,and the only black was the coal dust!!!must have been his nickname!!!!lol

Again not impressed!!!but a laugh!x
She's determined to have a bit of noteriety in her family,butno such luck .

Replied: 5th Jan 2016 at 19:40

 

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