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Kitt Green 1908
Started by: gaffer (6051)   Report abuse
Map just published. Map notes added.

Posted by: the_gwim_weaper (inactive) Report abuse
I remember that when it were nowt but fields.
Brilliant. Cheers, Gaffer.

Posted by: annefair (1142) Report abuse
Thanks gaffer very interesting

Posted by: indalo (40) Report abuse
On the second map to the left of !The Bell! in Bell Lane,there was a row of nine or ten one up, on down cottages where i lived in the 1940s, i lived at no. 126.
In 1949 aged 8yrs i moved to Orrell,i can still remember a lot of our neighbours,i remember a kiddies party behind what at that time was Heatleys off licence.Nothing wrong with a bit of nostalgia.

Posted by: nokomis (768) Report abuse
Thanks for this bit of nostalgia Gaffer. I wasn't around in 1908, but in the 40s and 50s I lived to the west of indalo in Gathurst rd. Just fields between our houses and the Bell where he lived. Our old primary school Lamberhead Green must be on the next map west. You don't happen to have that map do you? Love to see it if you do.

Posted by: sniffbnh3 (87) Report abuse
I lived in Greenhey in the 40's then moved to Gathurst Rd a couple of doors from Dean Wood Ave. Also went to Lamberhead Green school '49 - '59.
Been in Brisbane Australia since '68

Posted by: fred mason (2783)   Report abuse
Great map. Where it says 'Walthew House Lane' near Orrell Colliery is set of buildings drawn. I believe this is where George Formby used to live. I remember my dad telling me this when I was about 6 years old. The people who lived there at that time, 1952, used to sell sweets and chocolate bars from their front room.

Posted by: ayrefield (4465) Report abuse
I can remember there being two semi-detached houses just a bit higher up than the colliery Fred, but it had become the brickworks at that time, I have also heard about George Formby Senior living on Walthew House Lane, but I heard it was Walthew House, the one what was next to Philbin's or Walthew House farm.

The Manor House that's on the map wasn't there then in the late fifties as Heinz had been built then, but I can remember a large house surrounded with trees opposite the Old Springs pub, where Vanburgh Grove is now, there was always plenty of owls in the trees and my sister and I used to go and look at them.

Thanks for posting a very interesting map gaffer.

Posted by: the_gwim_weaper (inactive) Report abuse
Best Map I have seen on here by far this. Bloody well done, Gaffer!

Posted by: freda (307) Report abuse
Indalo, You are thinking of Jagger's Farm. We got chased many a time for going over the wall into his orchard, and relieving him of a few apples.

The Manor House was as you went down Walthew House Lane. ( Warthey as we said it). A family called Sixsmith lived there or nearby. I used to go for eggs during the war years.
It was on your left before you got to the brick works and a path ran along the side of it. This took you to the Canal at Crooke where the barges were laden with coal, and the men used to dredge there with buckets full of holes tied to a piece of rope. They then used to go round with a few sacks of wet coal on their push-bikes, and try to earn a bit of money.
I think I may know you indalo. Did your mother have a good head of red hair?
I also went to the party behind the off licence - It was to mark the end of the war.

Posted by: fred mason (2783)   Report abuse
Indalo, a friend who lives in sunny Spain wants to know if you live in S.E.Spain.

Thanks to all for the comments. I do remember my dad calling it Wathey House Lane, now.

Posted by: indalo (40) Report abuse
Hiya Fred,no i do not live in Spain,even thou i go there often.

Freda its funny how a map can rivive memory's, my mum did'nt have red hair,also i always thought the party was to
celebrate the end of the war,it was a bring your own cup and
saucer party. My initals are KG.
Also one of the neighbours always had a sack of wet slack
for sale for 6d.Freda did you live near the off licence?

Posted by: freda (307) Report abuse
Hi Indalo - I lived further along nearer to Latham Lane-
I'm a few years older than you are. I've not puzzled out who you are yet.

Posted by: nokomis (768) Report abuse
gaffer Thanks for putting the notes on as well as the maps. Most interesting. What a horrible tragedy in 1852 at Norley Hall colliery, particularly for the Hitchen and Greenall families who lost several members. I have also realised I made 2 gaffes in my earlier posting. Lamberhead Green school wouldn't have been on the 1908 map as it was only built in 1909 and also it would have been South of Bell lane not West. I am off to do 100 lines now
I must pay more attention in Geography and History lessons. Thanks again anyway I will look at these again and again.

Posted by: kittgreener (74)  Report abuse
Fascinating thread!
Indalo. If you lived in those white cottages, you must have known my grandparents who lived at 132. Their names were Mark and Maggie Magrath. Back to the map, My parents lived in Glovers Place when I was born. My maternal grandfather was born in number 8 and would have been 12 when the map was drawn. The map shows a 'Bowling Green' behind what would have been the old Kitt Green Post Office/Grocers shop(proprietors Sol & Annie Darbyshire). I certainly have no recollection of it ever being there. A bungalow used to be on that side when I lived there!
In my day, numbers 1-8 Glovers Place had been knocked through to make a warehouse/workshop. Numbers 10-16 opposite were all occupied and some had huge allotments at the back. In fact, there was nothing but open land between the back of our house and Bell Lane. Whenever it rained, our cobbled kitchen flooded and we had to wade through it to get upstairs to bed. Glovers Place is long gone, as is Charles Street although the Charles Street houses showing on the map became incorporated into what is now Silverdale Road.
The school shown on the map is now St Francis Church. My grandad went there in the 1900s. A young lady called Miss Baines was his teacher. Amazingly, an old lady called Miss Baines taught me at Sunday School in the early 60s. The very same person!

Posted by: indalo (40) Report abuse
I think I do remember your grandparents,did they move to
Moor Rd Orrell, and did they have a daughter named Joan,i also knew Betsy McGraph who lived in the first row of white
cottages they had two sons Ernie,and Trevor, they both went
to Lamberhead Green School,as i did, they live in the last
cottage near to where it shows Lyons House on the second map

Posted by: kittgreener (74)  Report abuse
Indalo You are spot on!
Joan was their grandaughter, my dads daughter, my half sister! Mark died in Bell Lane and my grandma moved to 47 Moor Road with her children. Her daughter was my Auntie Lily and her son was my Uncle Harry. My dad Jimmy and my Uncle Harold were in the war overseas.
You mentioned my great aunt Betsy, God Bless her! She stood around 4 feet tall and was a lovely lady. I saw her every day walking home from Lamberhead Green Infants. She had about 8 children, Trevor being the youngest. He lives in Mayfield Road. His older brother Ernie lives in Peter Street. Just a thought, are we related?

Posted by: process (1535) Report abuse
thanks for sharing, enjoyed looking and reading, is there any more map showing pemberton and orrell rd towards orrell post?

Posted by: annefair (1142) Report abuse
Thank you for this I live round here so it is great to see how it used to be.

Posted by: indalo (40) Report abuse
Hi ya KittGreener, no i don't think we are related,it's just
i can recall,a lot of the people who lived in Bell Lane and
the area around, a lot i also went to school with,Causeys,Bartons, Jex, Case, Winstanley, Houghton,Frank
Tabener, Boltons,Farrimond Hutchinson,and Baxter and many more

Posted by: alihet (58) Report abuse
Thanks Gaffer for the map. Covers my research for my family history. Although I didn't actually live down Kitt Green, I spend a lot of my childhood at my grandparents. My family have been living in and around this area since 'Adam was a lad'. My grandmother had the chipshop - the Molloys, the rest of the family lived there i.e. Hiltons, Rigbys, Rylances. You wouldn't know how to contact the person who has the drawings of Kitt Green by George Wilkinson would you. He has one of the chipshop before it was demolished???

Posted by: kittgreener (74)  Report abuse
Allhet. I was the one who put up George Wilinsons drawings. If you let me have your email address, I'll send them on to you!

Posted by: alihet (58) Report abuse
Hi kittgreener
Thanks you very very much. I have been looking for you for some time. How do I get my e-mail address to you without going public?
Are you a relative of George Wilkinson?

Posted by: stevemul (402) Report abuse
These and thousands of old maps can be viewed on
old-maps.co.uk . Type in your seach...eg Kitt Green...
on right of screen select whatever date of map you want to view.....zoom in and off you go. It´s a bit clumsy at times but fascinating stuff ! Good luck .

Posted by: kittgreener (74)  Report abuse
Allhet, you can try emailing me. Stu12wigan@aol.com. It will go straight to junk mail so put KITT GREEN PICTURES as your header so I can find it amongst the viagra and Nigerian Lottery garbage!

Posted by: erontquay (inactive) Report abuse
Kittgreener, My brother John used to rent one of the allotments you speak about almost 40 or so years ago I remember it was the people at the first cottage on Glovers Court who used to rent is to him.Cant remember their names Perhaps you can?

Posted by: ramsey (6) Report abuse
Just to put the record straight. Betsy Magrath was my grandmother she was always known as Mother Betsy. She had 5 children. Annie Kathleen Harry Ernest and Trevor. When Annie ( my mother ) died at the age of 29, she brought me up. My first recollection was walking down Bell Lane with my Dad and a little brown case to the white cottages. They had no electricity and a tippler toilet out at the back. From there we moved to Dean Crescent, where we had a bathroom and electricity. She was the best woman that ever lived and died in my arms at the age of 82. By the way she was more like 5ft 2. I know live between Blackburn and France, but I will always be a Kitt Greener. Hilary Ramsey (nee Goulding )

Posted by: kittgreener (74)  Report abuse
Erontquay, as I recall there were 5 separate allotments (pens) directly behind our cottages on Glovers Place. The Johnsons at No 9 had the first. We were at No 11 and had the next. Harry Hill (Hill's Pet Shop) at No 12 had the next. The end one was rented by Bill Shuttleworth (Newsagents/Toy Shop on City Road). The fifth one was between the first 4 and the farmers field and was rented by Jim Baxter at No 16. Jim bred rabbits and turkeys!

Posted by: nyce horse (3437) Report abuse
Just noticed, Kit Green, only one T.

Posted by: kittgreener (74)  Report abuse
nyce horse. The old Post Office opposite Montrose Avenue had Kit Green Post Office over the door!

Posted by: dr wat (inactive) Report abuse
how come tonker did not tell us that Kit Green only had 1 T

Posted by: kittgreener (74)  Report abuse
The sign over the Post Office was the only example I ever saw spelling Kitt Green with the one 'T'

Posted by: bobbygal (29) Report abuse
If you look closely at the map the writing has Kit Green only one "T" but I have always known it as Kitt Green. I lived next door but one, to Trevor McGrath in Dean Crescent for many years.
This is great to see all this stuff about the place where I was brought up.
Well done everybody.
BTW I live in Sydney now for the last 41 years.

Posted by: tommy c (588) Report abuse
my wife and her sisters and brothers were all born at the manor house.[ormeshers]

Posted by: dodger (3414) Report abuse
Tommy C,Is your wife related to Ernie?

Posted by: MarieM (5358) Report abuse
tommy did you marry into money.

Posted by: tommy c (588) Report abuse
dodger yes her brother, marieM certainly did but not so much.

Posted by: sniffbnh3 (87) Report abuse
G'day Bobbygal
First time I've been on Wiganworld in a long time, interesting to read your post
Don't know your vintage but I've been in OZ since 1968 so we must be "similar"
Original home Green Hey then Gathurst Road Orrell followed by Linley Close Standish Lower Ground before Brisbane
Did you know Derrick Taylor from Mayfield Crecent or Christine Ashcroft fom Dean Crescent

Posted by: bobbygal (29) Report abuse
To sniffbnh3, I'm 65 been here since 71. Derek Taylor, was he the one who played scrum half for Orrell 1st grade in the 60's? and Christine Ashcroft rings a bell though I can't place her. I lived opposite Geoff, Eric, Bill Lyon - next door to the O'Malleys. Joe Berry lived on other side of us.
Others in our street were Freddy Fogg, Rob Skiffington, David Roberts do you remember any of them?

Posted by: dodger (3414) Report abuse
I used to work with Harold Ashcroft, who lived facing the path to Prescot road, I think he had a daughter.

Posted by: winnie (1170)   Report abuse
I know this is a long shot but here goes!!! I am trying to find out some info on my granddad John Johnson born 1924/5 in the Wigan area.My dad thinks he may of lived in Charles street kit Green, he has looked on a map.He remembers the street being about 4 or 6 houses and down a dirt track and faced some fields .He remembers living with his widowed grandmother there in the 60s i am going to try and look him up on the 1939 register ,thanks

Posted by: kittgreener (74)  Report abuse
Winnie. I was born in 1955 and we lived just down the ‘dirt travk’ From Charles Street where my best friends Nan lived. The name John (Johnny) Johnson definitely rings a very vague bell with me!

Posted by: winnie (1170)   Report abuse
thanks for the reply Kittgreener i have no idea what his parents were called but i do know he had a sister called margaret have struggled to find him on the 1939 register .My grandad was quiet dark skinned hes my dads step dad but he was always my grandad

Posted by: winnie (1170)   Report abuse
if johns mother lived in that area when she died were would she be buried? approx late 1960s

Posted by: kathpressey (4878)  Report abuse
Winnie, St Johns Pemberton is a good bet for local burials. The church has a good website with all burials listed.

Posted by: winnie (1170)   Report abuse
thanks you i will take a look


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