N.H.S

Just seen a news report on our TV concerning the NHS and the hospital in question was Wigan Infirmary. The report said that they had cancelled all non-urgent operations until the end of the month and that people (patients) were having to wait for up to 8 hours to be seen. It also stated that some out patients were having to wait in corridors because the waiting rooms were overflowing and that they are considering bringing back mixed wards. Don't know why its true and if it is, is it because of lack of investment or funds or shortage of staff? Sad state of affairs!

No its because a winter flu outbreak.

'Aussie flu' continues its rampage as the NHS struggles to cope: Official data shows cases of the killer virus have surged by 48% in a week

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-5229191/Cases-Aussie-flu-surge-48-week-figures-show.html#ixzz539wFoQWB
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Mindar's LINK

Folk should have had a floo jab

snot that simple TTS, My missus had the floo jab, she still got ill though, recovered a lot now thankfully but still not 100%, it made her bed bound for 14 days, not eating or drinking,I had to wait for long periods for someone to make my tea, Its no wonder the NHS can't cope

Why are they going to A and E? Surely they should go to their GPS?

This years flu jab seems to not have a lot of effect on this years strain of flu. A particularly aggresive form.

tomplum

Sorry to hear about you having to wait for someone to make your tea, that is just AWFULL

And what seems to be the problem, Mr. Jordan?

It's because"some people" are thick.

It's happening all over the country, not just Wigan

Good one Tonker, just got it.

Why on earth would a tv report in your neck of the woods single out a Wigan hospital over all others in this country, when the problem is widespread. I didn't see Wigan mentioned in the newspaper report.
Flu is the main problem but not the only one. Stupid, selfish people clog up A&E on a regular basis with minor ailments which could easily be treated at home. Drink and drug abuse are others.
A&E is for accidents and emergencies, not headaches, stomach upsets, backaches and scraped knees.

people should wise up as this is happening all over the country.jeremy hunt has created this unworkable back log & his puppet prime minister has had to make a public appology . beware the private sector being involved here.

It is because of 'Demand' because of all the bloody migration we have had into this country over the last 10 years or so and it was your mate whupsy, who started it all off, Tony (suck up to EU) Blair

A piece in today’s Times highlights misuse of the ambulance service.
Paramedics were called more than 10,000 times to only 10 households.
One household in Barnet called paramedics 3,594 times last year. An ambulance was sent 715 times and a patient was taken to hospital 37 times. It cost the NHS £150,000.
London Ambulance reported 50,000 ambulance calls from 1600 people last year.

The report did NOT single out Wigan, but the footage of the ambulances backed up outside was filmed outside the Wigan infirmary, I recognized it at once because they saved my late mother's life twice!

Stop treating the Piss-Heads.

Wigan/Leigh had FIVE hospital now only got THREE Billinge/Whelley were shut what happened to all the capacity for beds at these 2 HospitalsHas Chorley A&E reopened full time and do patients from this area who attend Wigan A&E get transfered back to Chorley Hospital

A lot of the problems are outlined in the comments by jathbee and Gaffer. There is also the problem mentioned by TTS. Add the flu to that and it becomes a calamity.

Kids/people of today are to soft.

Peter
The phase 4 extension at the Royal Albert included the maternity beds from Billinge. The mental health facilities in Billinge were transferred to the 5 Boroughs partnership, now housed in the new facilities at Leigh.
Whelley beds were transferred to Wigan and Leigh.
The WWL trust has around 750 beds, around a half of the figure of 40 years ago. It mirrors the national picture.
When the Department of Health were setting out long term plans for the NHS towards the end of the last century no account was taken of the 4 million net increase in population that was to take place shortly afterwards.
At the same time £ tens of billions of funding was committed to rebuilding existing hospitals. To keep pace with the increase in population around 12 to 15 new hospitals the size of the WWL trust were needed but the money cupboard was bare. The only money cupboard that can be raided without affecting home policies, or raising taxation, is the overseas aid budget.

When you read of the scale of corruption in the overseas budget it is time it was suspended until it can be administered correctly and in the meantime the monies spent on the citizens of the UK.

the N.H.S. is in crisis because it has been deliberately run down by the evil Tories led by Maybot (weak and unstable ) and the wild eyed useless Health secretary Hunt (rhymes with ) as long as these People are in charge and waiting to hand it over to the likes of Branson and his friends we are in trouble

Privitisation is already creeping in at Wigan infirmary. It will affect NHS workers there very soon.

Paul. You need to read your op. You said Wigan was the one in question.
When in fact it wasn't. The problem is country wide.

Peawapp, Do you think JC will win the next election? If he does do you really think things will change? They didn’t last time Labour were in power. Remember Mid Staffs when hundreds of people died under the Labour government. Surely you have reached an age when you now realize all this prattling is window dressing and 99% of MP’s are in politics for one purpose. To look after themselves and their gold plated pensions.

Of course the problem is country wide, but the segment shown on Tele Bern (taken from Sky News)was of Wigan Infirmary which I immediately recognised, the reporter then went on to say (dubbed) that the NHS was in trouble, OK? p.s. Spot on Bill

Jathbee
I’ve just looked through the latest accounts I can’t see any evidence to support your statement.
The local Care Commissioning Group is able to offer services out to tender to NHS bodies and private sector organisations. In recent years ophthalmology was put out to tender but it was retained in house by offering the best proposal.
Current legislation of Foundation Trusts includes a legal lock to prevent privatisation. Private income is limited to the same percentage of income that existed when Foundation Trusts were NHS hospitals in 2002.

I was told by a customer that Boston House is run by Salford Royal NHS Trust

Gaffer. The plans haven't been made public yet. But no doubt they soon will be. More trouble ahead I fear.

TTS, It is listed as a satellite unit of Salford Royal NHS Trust on their website. Haemodialysis Unit it says plus other services.

I don’t really understand the problem with some NHS operations being carried out by the private sector as long as it is free to the patient. If our Doctor requires blood testing we go to a private sector company who do the work and send the results back to him. Same for MRI Imaging. I see a Cardiologist at his own practice and if anything needed go to get it sorted at the hospital. I recently saw a dermatologist at his own offices and he did the work there. None of this cost me a penny. What I did notice was the absence of people walking round with files under their arm seeming to do nothing which people complain about all the time.

I'm sure I saw the news report which you all refer to. And I'm sure it was based on a patient at Whiston hospital A&E, not Wigan hospital (although it was mentioned).

And Basil Brush hit the nail squarely ont'yed with his "people of today are too soft"!

Yes. Years ago, the A&E's were nowhere near as busy.

Remember when you went to visit a relative in hospital and they used to say, "only two visitors per bed, please"?
Well, why don't they tell people visiting the A&E departments that they can only be accompanied by ONE chaparone, not mum, dad, three kids and the dog!

Gaffer,
Do you not think that as soon as people see the word "privatisation" in connection with the NHS they automatically think of private treatment where they have to pay?? This is not the case. You mentioned Ophthalmology as an example. If this service was privatised it wouldn't make any difference to the patient. Presumably it would be at a reduced cost to the local trust which long term should benefit the patients.

Wigan Infirmary shown with 14 ambulances parked up outside on the main BBC 6.00 O'clock news, that is national news shown all over the country, not just the local news, so Paul deserves an apology

Except Paul isn't even in this country?

It is for ex Wiganers also. If you were sat in a foreign country and saw a photo of a place you knew well would it not
get your attention?? I live overseas but know what is happening in the UK. I speak to people there two or three times a week, plus read here and the English press so I probably know more about Wigan than Calgary.

Broady
Unfortunately the NHS has become over politicised.Despite unpteen reorganisations by both political parties it stlll falls short in some areas.
The time honoured method in such situations is to set up a Royal Commission to chart the way forward.
It may well be that continuing to pump taxpayers money into the NHS in it's present format won't solve it's problems.
The brief to a Royal Commission should be simple such as which system of healthcare is in the best long term interests of the UK population.

Is it the press who have just jumped on a band wagon or is there some thing wrong in the system when over the last few weeks people have died within weeks of being diagnosed with cancer

Privatisation means exactly that in some cases. The NHS workers that I am talking about may or may not affect the treatment of patients. But it certainly will affect the workers. Affecting terms and conditions of contracts. Which may ultimately affect quality of care. Just the thin end of the wedge for all NHS workers. They are starting right at the bottom and will start the rot at the roots. They will no longer be employed by the NHS. So what would you call it, if not privatisation.

Posted by: Tommy Two Stroke (1904)1,000+ Report abuse

Wigan Infirmary shown with 14 ambulances parked up outside on the main BBC 6.00 O'clock news, that is national news shown all over the country, not just the local news, so Paul deserves an apology

Replied: 4th Jan 2018 at 18:06

Not a cat in hells. I think we are all well aware of why Paul started this thread and yoo were quite willing to help it on it's way, weren't yoo.

I certainly call it privatization. I get confused here. Half the people say cut back on the deadwood walking round, seemingly doing nothing, and this deadwood would not be carried in the private sector. If say blood testing goes private then who ever gets the contract would need the staff to work for them so some would move across. This has happened in lots of industries for years. What would your solution be? It is a well known fact that PFI repayments are crippling lots of hospitals so why not suspend Foreign Aid and pay those monies off so more of the NHS purse goes into patient care.

Posted on Facebook tonight from a nurse at Wigan Infirmary: To all my none medical friends on here you need to know and understand your NHS is facing its biggest crisis of all time, I have never seen our hospital struggle in the last few days as all my years of nursing. We had 16 ambulances lined up and down Wigan Lane today as they could not offload because A&E was full, our beds are full and there is nowhere for patients to go and this is the same in nearly every hospital in the country. Scary times ahead as we cannot sustain the current demand. Please choose carefully and think do I really need the A&E?

Why on earth would a NHS nurse single out a Wigan hospital?

https://www.facebook.co/photo.php?fbid=1517023965061061&set=a.890904251006372.1073741836.100002604160028&type=3&theater&ifg=1

So whose fault. And what was yout intention.


Dr Rob Galloway – who works on the frontline in A&E – has written an open letter to journalists asking for their help in telling the story of the crisis in the NHS, and pleading with them not to ‘peddle propaganda’ from politicians.

The heartbreaking Facebook post has been shared over 10,000 times in under 24 hours.

Dr Galloway is clear what the problem is, and it’s not quite the same story that Tory Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt is telling.

Writing on Facebook, Galloway says:

Dear Journalists, as an A&E consultant I am writing to ask for your help.

Up and down the country our A&E departments are in melt down, our staff are at breaking point. Patients are being left in corridors because there are no ward beds for them to go to, staff are leaving shifts demoralised and exhausted and most importantly our patients are not getting the care they deserve.

We need the public to know about this, not to scaremonger, but for the truth to be out there – as the only way to get politicans to change – is by voters knowing the reality and prioritising the NHS at the ballot box.

But without the public understanding what is going on, we will continue to have this crisis year after year after year. This is where we need your help. We need you to report the reality and not peddle the propaganda from our politicians.

The crisis is much worse than what you report. We all talk about the 4 hour target and that we get around 90%. But that includes all the patients who don’t need admission. But for the ones who need admission, the % who get admitted within 4 hours is so so so much lower than that. And for those patients, it is crucial for their well being, that they get admitted within four hours.

Why are you not asking for these figures? That would help reveal the truth.

Then you report 12 hour breaches. But in England (but not the rest of the UK) the clock starts ticking when a specialist senior has seen them. So they can be in A&E for 18 hours and not be a 12 hour breach.

Why are you not asking for the figures of patients who stay in A&E for more than 12 hours? That would help reveal the truth. And what about asking how many patients are spending time in corridors?

Because if you did reveal these figures – you would soon see the real extent of the crisis. And it is a crisis. One which will lead to a breaking point soon unless something changes.

The fault does not lie with the patients. Yes a few inappropriately attend – but they are not the problem; they can be quickly turned around and discharged. The fault is not with the staff. They are working tirelessly and doing an amazing job despite the conditions they are working in.The fault does not lie with managers and hospital executives. They are working relentlessly to make things work as well as they can. And despite what the government peddle it certainly is not the fault of the GPs. Although there is falling numbers of GP surgeries, they are doing an amazing job at reducing the number of A&E attendances. Most importantly, the fault does not lie with the ‘system’ of the NHS – a model of care which utilities its resources to maximal effect.

The fault lies with the government. Years of failed austerity depriving NHS and councils of vital monies and investment is taking its toll. A&Es are struggling because of the frail elderly who need a ward bed but cant get one. They can’t get one because there are not enough beds within our hospitals (we have one of the smallest numbers of bed per capita in the whole of Europe) and because those that need to get out of hospital can’t because of a lack of social care. In addition some money which has been spent on the NHS had been wasted on pointless reorganisations designed to start the process of NHS privatisation.

Please start reporting that. Please start reporting the truth. Please start reporting how close we are to melt down and please help get the public worked up about what is going on.

Because sadly our government don’t seem that bothered. They and their friends can afford private health care and therefore don’t rely on it. Even worse many would be happy to see our NHS privatised.

But for everyone else we need the NHS. The staff will battle on (and it is a battle at the moment). We will continue to do everything we can. We will continue to adapt, modernise and reform. We will continue to provide the most amazing possible care despite the conditions. But there is only so much our staff can take. And if we lose our staff we lose the NHS.

Journalists -we need your help. Please help.

And if you are not a journalist reading this, please share (publicly), or tweet it or send onto your friends in the hope that journalists will pick this up and start reporting the truth.

Rob Galloway A&E Consultant
@drrobgalloway

Please share as widely as possible :

Shared Jathbee!

If only successive governments hadn't jumped in bed with the PFI crew ( for the record predominantly the Labour Government) No answer to stopping overseas aid until the house that is the UK is in order. Stop National Health visitors immediately. You have to be cruel to be kind sometimes.

Dr Rob Galloway has been writing similar statements for the past three years. He is actively opposed to the Tories and addresses the Brighton and Hove Labour Party meetings.
An example of over politicising the NHS. It doesn’t help and only serves to frighten the most vulnerable in society.

jathbee

"Not a cat in hells. I think we are all well aware of why Paul started this thread and yoo were quite willing to help it on it's way, weren't yoo"

I know what Paul is like and I am not a racist, in fact I was helping out a very nice East European lady this afternoon, but jathbee I was just telling the truth, there are millions more people living in this country, who are relying on the same infrastructure as we have had for a long time and which is now cracking under the pressure

Thank god we are leaving the EU and other countries will follow us out of the EU it is not about racism, it is about the sheer number of migrants coming into this country and we just cannot cope with them ...

I'm not stupid TTS. I know that is part of the problem but no more so than our very own idiots, druggies, alkies and mard arses who run to A&E with a snotty nose. Never the less both you and I know the real reason for Paul's post and you were the only one to take it up. Just shit stirring then, were you.

Posted by: paul (3003) View paul's page2,500+ Report abuse
Shared Jathbee!

Replied: 4th Jan 2018 at 22:00
Yes, and?

Any solution.?? Money is the solution plus reform the way Care is looked at. As you say above millions being wasted annually. If you turn away a drunk and he vomits and chokes him/ herself the lawyers will be all over it like a rash. Same for druggies.

Alternately. You leave a heart attack victim or a stroke victim lying on a trolley in a draughty corridor while you attend to a drunk or druggy. Yes it is about money. Send the drunks and druggies to rehab. That is their treatment, if they choose not to, their choice. A heart attack victim or stroke victim didn't get that choice. Money? Yes you need to spend it wisely.

Gaffer, if Gareth Fairhurst was a doctor, he'd double as Rob Galloway!

So Gaffer what is wrong with his opinion of the NHS as he sees it, from a professional and inside point of view.

jathbee

Yoo are a nowty bugger ...

Opinionated maybe. Don't confuse it with nowty.

Jathbee, From where I sit you appear to have red tinted glasses on. Labour and their love of PFI caused a lot of the problems. If you haven’t already read up about the PFI fiasco and what it costs the NHS.

Don't no about nowty, but gets nasty where she doesn't get her own way

just heard from relative in Plymouth with a very large painfull lump on on her\shin bone she has been told 4 yer 4 months wait at PLYMOUTH to be seen by a Doctor

Broady. My glasses are more likely to be dark tinted, disillusioned by years of first one government after another failing the hard working people of this country. Corruption and deceit around every corner and then they think all they need to do is say {{{sorry}}} like Threasa May for the unholy mess the NHS is currently in and that makes it all okay. Homelessness, poverty, lawlessness abound in our towns and cities, the sick and unemployed are treated like criminals and made to feel like the scum of the earth because they either can't work or can't find work. The ills of this country are not of the making of the people of this country, never has been. And it makes me very angry that they are being scapegoated by the 'I'm aright Jack, brigade' instead of placing blame firmly where it belongs, with ineffective, incompetent, arrogant, governments. Rose, Red, Blue tinted. No, definatetly not.

I have to praise wigan infirmary and staff, we waited 1hour and half hours for a ambulance, after that they were brilliant he has breathing problems and was in a bad way.

Brenda, I too have only had good experiences with Wigan Infirmary (abeit a long time ago)and the ambulance services. I think the people working in the health industry are definitely not in it for the money!

Are you trying to say they'd do it for a poor wage, Paul?

Dream On!

Your average nurse working full time is on around £32k

Hard up?

Yeah right!

I don't think any one is doubting how well the staff at Wigan Infirmary
treat their patients or their ability to cope under stress.
It's the reasons behind this overload of the resources, that is being questioned.

Nurses are worth a lot more than Social Workers

No idea. Never had any dealings with them.

You only need to look at the multiple failings across the country.

Stardelta

Plus £4500 employer contribution to pension.

So are we saying nurses aren't worth their wages?

Looks like some people think that.
I bet they don't get 2% salary increase this year like our beloved council grafters.

Stardelta you do paint a rosy picture.
iam a band 5 paediatric nurse on top increment so i get 28000 a year .For that i did 3yrs training at college and 3 years at university.As for full time i work on average 37hrs paid and 15 unpaid hours due to shift coverage and training a week .im expected to do training in my own time and organise training for other staff .
i havent received a payrise in 10 years
Now you tell me stardelta as i am not unique .
Why i should feel well off

Good points dazzylatic...

My other half is a community nurse. She doesn't work full time as the costs of childcare outweigh the extra she would get. She is lucky to hit 20K. 32K??? lets try looking at reality instead of propoganda....

Are the figures quoted nett or gross?

the 20K quoted by myself is before tax etc Anne.

As is mine Anne .StarDelta must work for diane abbott.

I said "average", I didn't say " all".

Is it true that band 8 nurses are on north of £48k?

Ive been nursing for at least 10 years.Average is 24.500
As for band 8 nurses they are management.As in all employment you are rewarded for promotion .
Still nowhere near what a snoozing backbencher gets but hey lets not get diverted from facts SD.
Who would you say deserves their money more?
Do you think i get paid handsomely for what i do?

Heres a quick calculation SD.
28000÷52=538.42 a week
Average week is 53 hrs regardless of contract so thats 538.42÷53=10.15 less tax and insurance .See where im going here?
Well off my arse.

The NHS was never created to be used by over 60 million!

i WAS IN HOSP; LAST YEAR AND WAS AMAZED THAT WHEN THETY TAKE YOU HOME PERULANCE yOU ARE WRAPPED IN A CUOPLE OF BKANKETS and the dont take them back they leave them with yoou ------what a waste of money in my opinion wht not have them wasjed with other bed linen OR do they not keep those are thy discarded as well

The NHS is a victim of it’s own success.
Twenty years ago HIV was a death sentence, now people with the condition can expect to lead a normal life. The average lifetime cost of treating a HIV patient is £300,000.

Regarding nurses pay: Wayne Rooney earns an incredible £300,000 per week – that’s £1,786 an hour and £30 a minute and about 50p per second; earning 27,000% more than the average UK wage and he's not even in the top ten high earners!

Wayne Rooney does not earn £300k a week.

Surely the problem with the NHS is the turn over of patients NOT going out of the hospitals causing bed blocking. Has I have said we in this area had Whelley/Billinge Hospitals which could be used to free beds at Wigan. Now these patients are expected to be cared for at home (many of then live alone/Have no family)and the care in the community cannot cope with the numbers or the patients still need 24 hr care.My mother in law needed care in the community and St Helens Council came out to her home and after a meeting a plan was put into place to help her.She had to pay for the care. From day one this plan was never stuck to and it was not long before she was back in hospital so care in the community did not work for her and I am sure many more people.

Social Workers

Just stick it on the rates.
Saving money? Don't make me laugh.

WIGAN CLOWNCIL
COMICAL PLACE COMICAL PEOPLE
BENT AS NINE BOB NOTES

"I said "average", I didn't say " all".

Is it true that band 8 nurses are on north of £48k?"

And why does it bother you? Jealousy? Spite? More than sniffy's arse lickers?

No response SD?
No surprise

'Average' suffers from the same old - The higher wages paid down south, in the more expensive and affluent areas disproportionately skew the figures in the local area.

No response?
Response to what?
I stated the average pay for a nurse is around £32k
Starting pay is around £15.4k and can rise to over £48k with training, experience and responsibility......just like it does in many vocations.

Am I wrong?


BTW....I don't work in the healthcare industry, but if its any consolation to you I don't believe I get paid enough for what I do either

And what is it you do SD ?
Seem to have more free time than me youre never off here lol

Sorry bridger my mistake, what with sponsorship deals, shirt sales and bonuses he probably gets a lot more!

My mate's son-in-law got £4,400 a week as a professional footballer. He now plays for Middlesborough and he got a rise when they were promoted. He's not famous like Rooney.
I know it's not £300,000 a week, but it's good money and shows that £300,000 a week is possible for a player like Rooney.

I know a paediatric orthopedic surgeon and she's on more than some footballers. Much more!

But, you can't compare these jobs. An electrician at Heinz's gets less than the nurses above, who don't class themselves as 'well off'!

You can't compare nurses either, as there are nurses and there are 'nurses', if you get my drift.

And he also donates a lot of the sponsorship money to charity. 3/4 of a million just before Christmas. He took a pay cut when he joined Everton again.

Either way, we're talking about nurses, the real ones, on the front line. Not management.