APLS

We recently discussed the lodge at the Hall Lane entrance to The Plantations.

I can't find the thread which contained your photo just now, but if you remember, we mentioned how the gate had moved.

See this.

From Here.

APLS's pics

I've seen the filled holes in the lodge's walls since you mentioned them, Dustaf.

(We've not found the stone circle as yet though.)

If you go over the canal bridge heading to the hall, you come to a dirt path on your right. Follow the path and as the woodland to your left side gets denser, look for a stone gatepost (appx five feet tall). Right by the edge of the path.

Go along the narrower path and the circle is just to your left.


Should you miss the gatepost you will see a field/meadow as you go along, eventually reaching the Mowpin Lane lodge.

Good luck.

It's well worth a look.

Thanks, Dustaf - we'll have another try.

Incidentally Jo Anne, that dirt track runs along the edge of the Plantations with a farm field to your right (going upwards).

You'll know you're in the right area if you see where there has been some 'hedge laying' done to the boundary shrubs.

I'll take my camera, Dustaf.
(Lesser pace of progress, but some might say more pain.)

I remember the lodge gates being in front of the lodge and I am going to start looking through the picture archive

We found it, Dustaf.

The stone gateposts:



The stone circle (and my lovely daughter)

Hello. Are you a keen photographer Jo Ann? Very impressive!

I love taking photo's Patsgirl, but I just point and press.
The plantations are one of my favourite places and they are very photogenic.

Cheers APLS

I'm glad you found it Jo Anne.

It still looks rather elaborate for a dog kennel to me.

We've been on the dirt track many times, Dustaf, and almost managed to miss the gateposts again today.

I included my daughter on the photo' to try to show the scale of it - I didn't imagine the stone circle to be quite so big.

The circle is big. But if you look at the inner one and imagine it quartered, it doesn't seem like you would house a dog there.

All seems very elaborate for a kennel. Even if they did have money to burn in those days.

Hunting hounds, mester?

I think I said that before when I put the old piccy on.

Yes, but if you look at Jo Anne's pic with her daughter stood on the inner part, there'd not be much room. And the inner wall was relatively high.

I think it's where they kept their wrong-uns.

Every family has them.

There's a quote similar in Dad's army where they look for the butterfly spring in Mr Blewitt's dead brother's coffin.

Mr Blewitt "My brother's got a screw missing"

Pte Godfrey "They say every family has one"

Or words to that effect.

Forgive me for digressing.

I think it's where they kept their wrong-uns.

In the dog house, as it were?

They have bars on some of the Hall windows too.

Let's have it right;

[The coffin in which Mr. Blewitt's brother is inside has been unscrewed.]
Mr. Blewitt: Hey, my brother's got a screw loose!
Pte. Charles Godfrey: Oh dear. They say there's one in most families.


No Spring For Frazer

They may have only had a small pack mester, and wasn't it said it had been used as cold storage or wash house too.

On seconed thoughts, I seem to remember the wash house was near but seperate.

Yes mester, it has been suggested that it was an ice house.

Story goes that when the hall eventually got refrigerator/s there was no need for the ice house and dogs may then have been kept there.

The words laundry and kennels feature on an old map I've seen somewhere.

Jo Anne, did you see those four metal 'pots/drains' in the inner quadrants?

They seem like strange things to have in a kennel.

four metal 'pots/drains' in the inner quadrants

I definitely saw one, Dustaf, and caught it on camera, but I'm not sure about the others.


Spot four pots

At one time there was a grating lyiing nearby, which i presume was off one of the 'pots'. Similar to this.

Speaking of grating, did you notice the small grid at the corner of the lodge Jo Anne?

As I mentioned before, it's where the mechanism to the gate was. Up to a year or so ago, there wasn't a grid on the floor, but a square piece of metal (no holes) with signs of wear from the gate.


Here's another one for you;

If you approach the canal bridge from the Wigan side, the coping stones on the parapet are completely different. On the right side, they are very angular, apexed. yet on the left, they are flatter and curved.

"The words laundry and kennels feature on an old map I've seen somewhere."

These are mentioned in the Past Forward article from which I got the photo, but I'm buggered if I can find it now, in the house or online.

I'm sure someone has put a picture of the map on here before.

If memory serves, it's just an OS map. Not some document from the estate.

I can't even find the "Great Ones" post on the subject. I think It was a bit of a quiz asking where and what the circle was.

I don't know mester.

All you had to do was look at Jo Anne's link up there ^^^^^ (20:33 2 July)

Past Forward (Page 38)

I've just found it in my wardrobe too!

Getwom mentions an 1849 map here. It could be on that.

Can't find owt, but the curling pond is featured here on pages 30 and 32 (Corner of New Road And Copperas Lane). Note it's rectangular man made shape.

Wrong thread.

No worries mester.

Past Forward 31 (p.38)

I can't say that I noticed the small grid at the corner of the lodge, Dustaf - I'll look out for it next weekend.

Whereabouts are the differing stones on the canal bridge?

They're out of shot there Jo Anne, but only just.

If you were to join the driveway from that side of the bridge, you'd see straightaway, the stonw wall with angular copings (though a sharper angle than in pic).

If you went under the bridge and climbed the steps from that side, you'd see the flatter copings.

I think they are symetrical on the Hall side of the canal.

If you have a gander, there's also a maker's plate on the inside of the bridge. On the metalwork next to the left column you can see on the Bridge 60 pic. Sure the company was on Scotland Rd Liverpool.

On the opposite side of the path to the column with the 60 plate you can see what looks like a green rivet in the stonework.

I think it's a benchmark. Presumably copper or bronze. similar to this.

Headscratcher

If that's looking in the direction of the hall, the copings must have been altered.

APLS pic 9:06 looking from Hall side of canal. Symmetrical copings.

I've been searching through Wiganworld to try to find other photographs of the bridge's stone walls, Dustaf. I've only found this one so far.

That's on the Wigan side of the canal, looking towards Red Rock, Jo Anne.

The copings behind the chap standing, are flat.

He's probably looking at the copings opposite him, without even noticing the difference.

"Behind You!"

I'll keep looking, Dustaf.

When I said the other side are sharper angle than in the pic

20:34 ^^^. I mean the triangular section. Although the apex doesn't actually come to a point. It's flattened.

First thought was that it (difference) could have had something to do with barge-ropes. But I can't see that being the case.

Speaking of barge-ropes. If you go along the canal and look at the stone parapet of the basin bridge (boat house pond), there's a metal rod that is angled downwards to the towpath to prevent ropes snagging on the parapet edge.

This feature isn't repeated on the Red Rock side of the parapet, as that is in it's original state and the stonework is angled downwards.

1:20?

Sorted.

But why the difference?

I think that dog was just about to read the maker's mark for the steelwork too.

But why the difference?

I don't know, Dustaf. It might be a masonic secret.

Do these pics help at all

I wouldn't like to say, APLS - Dustaf's a bit partic'.

It's the end nearest to the signpost where the coping stones are different on either side of the bridge. Around 1:20 into this video.

Dustaf - if both sides of the bridge are in their original state then I'm just guessing at ... you know I'm daft by now anyway
... could it be possible that the towing horse may have been stabled at Haigh Hall?

Does this 'angular copings side' of the bridge have the best path for leading a horse up onto the driveway?

Would supplies to / from the Hall (eg brewery) have been transported along the canal and a barge un/loaded at this bridge?

Or none of the above?

Masonic secret. Oh dear!

Speaking of masons, and in answer to your question about the canal, Jo Anne;

According to form, the stonework for the current hall arrived at the basin from Parbold. Also, other goods came by canal including (supposedly) the fine crockery for the place. You'd have thought they'd have been able to unload it onto what was to become the golf course. Though having said that, they'd have probably got some sort of parking ticket for obstructing the canal, and told to use the loading bay.

The apex coping side of the bridge does seem to have a more approachable pathway. I have often pointed this out to cyclists, who I have seen struggling with their bikes on the other side's steps.

Apparently, the basin was used by the forge and foundry down Leyland Mill Lane, Hall lane is very straight and could have had a rail-trackway on it.


APLS

More nice photo's.

Which bring me round to conundrum number II. (I nearly mentioned it the other day)

What is that green post on your last pic?

It appeared around a couple of years ago and has a badge on it. Town seal I think.

The post is of a square section and the badge is on the left side as you look at the pic.

On closer inspection, you will see that there is a hole in the bottom of the badge, appx 1'4" diameter. When the post first arrived, some suspicious folk claimed that the hole contained a camera. If you look at the post, you will see that the lid is held on with security screws.

Could it be a counting device, similar to the ones they have in entrances to some shopping arcades?

Although there isn't anything on the other side of the path for a beam to reflect off.

Thanks, Dustaf.

Masonic secret. Oh dear!

Oh dear indeed. (1.)

I wasn't sure about putting it - so much so that my hand was shaking as I typed.

And now another conundrum.
One can come undone with too many conudrums.

One can come undone with too many conudrums.

It's a beggar innit?

I have 'previous' too.

If you notice, I mention the possibility of making replacement castings for the railway bridge parapet. As a point of interest, take note of the railings on APLS Hall pics. The new ones on the disabled ramps which overlook the golf course.

The wrought ironwork is not a bad match for the existing railings on the balconies.

Just visible (1:27)

I remember your 'previous', Dostaf.

(One of the photo's on my profile page is taken under the railway bridge. I like the silhouette of the man in the doorway; it's more effective in the natural darkness, without a camera flash.)

You go looking for conundrums, don't you?

As I was walking under the Changeline Bridge today, I suddenly thought I ought to be taking more notice of it. And, for the first time, I saw how detail on the stone archway is partly hidden by metalwork of the bridge's modernisation.

And there's more.

On the canal bridge (Haigh) if you stand on the Red Rock side, you're higher up the metalwork.

There seems to be more tarmac on that side. Burying a cable perhaps? On APLS's pics you can see that the New Springs side of the pathway is full of weeds.

Have you noticed how the iron panels on the changeline are numbered, Jo Anne? L1 L2 L3 and R1 R2 R3 or something like that. Almost as though they came in kit form. Interesting also to look under the Seven Stars bridge (stadium side) and notice the cables and drain pipe that run under it.

Have you noticed how the iron panels on the changeline are numbered?

Not yet, Dustaf.

I'll look under the Seven Stars bridge soon, too.

I think the numbers are on the panels between the path and Pottery Road rather than the ones to stop you falling in the cut. (seen from the pathway about 3/4 way up the panel I think)

There was a thing some time ago, where someone had seen an image of Jesus in one of the panels. It was either peeling paintwork, or the remnants of Mr Bill Posters work.

I've done my roamwork, Dustaf.

Changeline bridge - where the detail on the stone archway is partly hidden by metalwork.

As you said, the panels between the path and Pottery Road are marked with a number & letter / letter & number.

From the left, there's a narrower unmarked panel then 4L through to 1L and next is R1, 2R/R2, R3, 4R and 5R.

There's a 'mini-bridge' (what would you call it?) for pipework added next to the Trencherfield Mill side of the changeline bridge.

The Seven Stars bridge - pipes and cables(?).

Riveting stuff.

Good stuff Jo Anne.

You've got me thinking if there is a name for the mini bridge? There's one near the DW Stadiium for gas I think. And two in the Martland Mill/Crooke area to feed water to Heinz.

When I mentioned pipes and cables, I think they may actally be electrical cables in your pipes pic. As well as pipes.

You've also got me thinking now.

The handrails here look rather new.

Certainly different to here.

It's a while since I've crossed that bridge on foot.

In fact I may have been there last, when the path was closed for renovation. Pre statues.

It's a pity you didn't manage to find a pic of the 'Jesus' image.

"Riveting stuff

I won't tell you the naughty 'golden rivet' tale.

The moral of which, being sailor beware!

I won't tell you the naughty 'golden rivet' tale.

Yes, nun of that, thank you.

It's a pity you didn't manage to find a pic of the 'Jesus' image.

A piety if I did?

But, Dustaf, having looked carefully at the changeline bridge, I have seen the angel in a niche.

So there.


[13:31] PS Further to the photo' of the hidden stonework detail on the changeline bridge - I've seen Britannia Bridge's stone archway today. Its similar detail isn't covered and reads:

OPENED 1816 OCT 22

On the changeline bridge you can still see OP and part of E.

Blimey Jo Anne, I don't think I've noticed the writing on the changeline before.

Always too busy taking care and being cautious of who, or what was coming from the opposite direction.

Or playing with the rollers.

The last time I was there one rotated and the other was stuck solid. (had been so for a few years)

'Don't think I've noticed the writing on the changeline before.. Always too busy taking care ..'

I miss nothing me.

'playing with the rollers'

You'll get your hair curlt, Dustaf.

Haigh Canal Bridge:

What is that green post?



the maker's mark for the steelwork



(From the Red Rock side of the bridge - the mark on the other side is almost illegible.)

Tarmac and benchmark.

Speaking of barge-ropes. If you go along the canal and look at the stone parapet of the basin bridge (boat house pond), there's a metal rod that is angled downwards to the towpath to prevent ropes snagging on the parapet edge.

This feature isn't repeated on the Red Rock side of the parapet, as that is in it's original state and the stonework is angled downwards. (5 July 19:48)

The basin bridge's sides - nearest to and farthest from the Haigh canal bridge (60).

Metalwork on the parapet.

Great photo's Jo Anne.

This feature isn't repeated on the Red Rock side of the parapet, as that is in it's original state and the stonework is angled downwards. (5 July 19:48)


Oh deary me!

I was also wrong with the badge on the metal post, and the road where the bridge was made too. There's another identical plate (badly corroded) on the diagonally opposite panel.

Though I have seen another point of interest. The angled copings have at some stage had railings on them. There are several remaining stubs of metal on them with lead packing. Similar to the type of thing you can see where railings were cut during the war.

Please try to be more exact - thereby less eggs-act, Dustaf.

(At least we now know, in a round and about way, there was a duck do at Haigh.)

I didn't notice the remains of railings on the angled copings - I'll have a closer look the next time I'm at the bridge.

Edit remains of railings

Punched lead cast in a Venice bridge wall fixing the hard-metal connecting bar -link

They can't be original Jo Anne.

Why have railings on one wall only?

Original?

They do curve with the wall though. re the sawn-off stubs; I wonder if replacement copings were found and utilized after having rails removed. Again, pure speculation. And a seemingly good match for the curved wall.

Theft of stone is not uncommon in the area. Before restoration, the Hall Lane Lodge was 'quarried', as Tony Robinson's chums would say.

It is a shame, Dustaf.

Stone is missing from along the canal here now - I'm not sure if it ended up in the canal or was taken.

Unfortunately, that might never be restored to how it was, if the tow path paving is anything to go by:

spaces have been filled in with concrete.

I've seen some of the original 'paving bricks' at the bottom of the canal when that stretch has been emptied.

Have you noticed the stonework of the basin bridge and Haigh canal bridge is deteriorating?

Talking about theft of stone, the Chester walls were almost completely rebuilt in the 1920's due to the stone being pilfered.

Stone is a beautiful construction material, Gwim.

Our local parish church had the railings on its surrounding stone wall completely replaced recently - unfortunately, when the old railings were removed and the new ones fixed in their place, much of the stone has been badly damaged.

A couple of pics of the basin bridge

I didn't know about the Chester walls Gwim. Scoundrels!

That's probably why it's still legal to shoot a Welshman with a Gat if you catch him within the City grounds after 8:42, providing he isn't carrying a leek.

Shame about the block paving Jo Anne. Most other parts of the renovated towpath have been done in stamped concrete. But that area was actually paved.

Unemployed folk were 'offered' a place on the scheme for something like an extra £10:00 a week in the early Nineties.

The path over the Basin Bridge was only repaired a few years ago. Again with concrete.

I remember the towpath being renovated in the nineties, Dustaf. The paved parts are posh. It's such a shame to see it vandalised.

Good photo's of the basin bridge, APLS.

Nice pics of the bridge APLS (missed them earlier)

I think they had two areas for the scheme at the time, Jo Anne. Seven Stars area and possibly Rose Bridge?

Later work was done with concrete rather than paving.

I don't know about the Seven Stars area, Dustaf, but Rose Bridge was definitely re-paved at the time - painstakingly and to great effect.

I thought it was Rose Bridge, but wasn't sure. Seven Stars paving was from Pier to Pagefield lock.

They seemed to be going a bit to town at the time, Dustaf.

Worthwhile though, if people don't spoil it.

I think jo anne & dustaf will like this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhOP9iMGSV0

You're not wrong APLS.

It suits me, too, APLS, but where's Sooty?

Thank you.

Mr Matthew mentioned the clever dickies who frequently enquired about Sooty from the towpaths in that series Jo Anne.

Mr Matthew mentioned the clever dickies

Can we puppet to rest now, Dustaf.

My Mum went to a show in which Sooty appeared (with Matthew's Dad) when she was a little girl, Dustaf.

Did she shout the magic spell, Jo Anne?

If you watched that series, you will have seen that Mr Matthew's Great Uncle was one Harry Ramsden.

No relation.

Did she shout the magic spell?

I think my Mum might have, Dustaf - she has a magic memory of the show anyway.

Do you think that's what people were actually shouting to Matthew from the towpath?

And not, 'Is he with thi?' as Matthew mistakenly thought.

Matthew's Dad did have a hand in the prop H having to be put in Harry H. Corbett's name though, Dustaf.

'Is he with thi?'

G R O A N

I think it showed some people fishing near Burrrrnley who enquired about Sooty. Mr Matthew smiled politely and gave a civil answer. Then explained to the camera that the wise-cracking wags weren't the first he'd encountered on the way from Hull.

Poor Matthew.

'G R O A N '

I was proud of that, Dustaf.

PS: Or playing with the (changeline) rollers.

The last time I was there one rotated and the other was stuck solid. (had been so for a few years)

I can verify that the roller nearest to the Pier woodn't fulfil its role and the other one would.

You'r pun wasn't that painfull Jo Anne.

As for the roller.

Take an ommer to it.

Harry wouldn't have been a smash hit without Sooty.

Take an ommer to it.

That'd be bang out of order.

Those rollers appeared when the pier area was done-up. 1986 ish.

Had heard about the rollers before, but never seeen any.

Note bracket on Apls' pic.

I saw the one on the other side, yesterday, Dustaf.

Why has metalwork - which seems to be like that on basin bridge(?) - been removed from the stones along the edge of the canal?

As seen near Britannia Bridge:

This one has really got me scratching my head, Jo Anne.

There's no obvious reason why the 'staples' (not sure if that's the right term) should be removed.

But;

I remember seeing an example where they had rusted through and were so thin that they had broken in the middle.

This had resulted in the two halves pointing slightly upwards. I can't for the life of me remember where I saw them. But they looked rather dangerous. It could possibly be the case (pure speculation) that the remnants were removed for safety reasons.

Which could be what has happened in the instance photographed.

Or perhaps the bank has been re-set at sometime or other and it the staples were not required. (Modern cement stronger?)

I don't know, Dustaf. It's been done purposely and quite extensively though - I've definitely noticed it from the Seven Stars area along to Wigan Pier, too.