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Rememberance Sunday   Views: 1427
Wigan Cenotaph c.1972   Comments: 28
Photo: Graham N   Item #: 30816  
Wigan Cenotaph c.1972

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  Rememberance Sunday  

 [<< Back] 28 user comment(s) below:-  [Leave a comment]

Comments by Jarvo, 7th November 2018  
No sign of Ronnie Abrahams here...Ronnie was always the standard bearer for the Legion.

Comments by jack, 7th November 2018  
It looks earlier than 1972.

Comments by Mick, 7th November 2018  
Much earlier than 1972. I would guess at late 1940s/early 1950s
The police officers are wearing Wigan Borough uniform, and the 'dog collar' style of tunic the PCs are wearing was phased out in the early 1950s.
In 1972 Wigan was policed by the Lancashire Constabulary, who wore a different style of uniform.
The tall officer on the right might be PC Maurice Heyes, who retired in the mid 1970s, but I stand to be corrected on that.

Comments by Aubrey, 7th November 2018  
This was probably in the late 1950ís. David Aitken, Chief Constable. Ken Marsh and Jimmy Clinch either side of the floral tribute and P.C. Alan Wood on the left. I do not remember the names of the other 2 constables, they had left before I joined in 1960

Comments by A.W., 7th November 2018  
It does look much earlier than 1972, I think the style of police uniform with the high collar went out in the late 1940's.

Comments by Aubrey, 7th November 2018  
Co-incidentally Ken Marsh and Jimmy Clinch ( each side of the wreath) are in the football photo posted 3 days ago.

Comments by Philip G., 7th November 2018  
Lord Mayor H.R. Hancock (1955), perhaps?

Comments by Donald Underwood, 7th November 2018  
Definitely not Harry Hancock.The Mayoress looks like Mrs Sidney Burgess,though Sid is unrecognisable under the hat

Comments by Philip G., 7th November 2018  
Donald. I've just had a look at Mr Burgess (1959) and his wife on Images, and it looks as though you've identified them.

Comments by irene roberts, 7th November 2018  
I would say late 1950s/early 1960s, going off the middle lady's stiletto heels.

Comments by Elizabeth, 7th November 2018  
I would agree about this being more likely to be much earlier than 1972, definitely before wearing animal fur was frowned upon !

Comments by Mick, 7th November 2018  
David Aitken was appointed Chief Constable in 1957, following the death of his predecessor Paul Foster in January of that year, so presumably after that date.

Comments by DTease, 7th November 2018  
All this Mayor and Corporation stuff is a bit hypocritical when you think that thousands of limbless young men were left to beg for pennies on the street after WW1, and after WW2 thousands of widows were left to bring up their kids as best they could with little or no help from the preening Politicians who love to parade for the cameras on Armistice Day.
It will turn my stomach to see them all wearing their best solemn faces and placing wreaths in memory of the young men that they themselves have sent to an early death.
Only a couple of days ago a veteran of recent conflicts ended his own life after desperately trying to get help for the mental condition his service to his country had left him with. Where were these hypocrites then?

Comments by Gwenda, 7th November 2018  
I don't believe we can really lay the blame for past generations of governments making wrong decisions with the people who will be honouring the fallen from past wars.I take the point about ex-army personnel being neglected when they have suffered post traumatic stress.However,I don't think the representatives we shall observe this coming Sunday have directly caused any hurt.Would you rather they didn't observe the fallen?

Comments by DTease, 7th November 2018  
Glenda, the soldier who died recently tried very hard to get some help but help came there none. He was there when the Politicians needed him, where were the Politicians when he needed them? How can they for shame stand at the Cenotaph pretending they care when clearly they do not.

Comments by Ranger, 8th November 2018  
Where were the British Legion when this soldier was looking for help? I thought the purpose of us donating to the poppy appeal each year was that veterans would be helped if they needed assistance.

Comments by WILLY WACKUM, 9th November 2018  

Comments by Aubrey, 9th November 2018  
DTease and Ranger, You are certainly correct in the story of the soldier, but let us not get too political, surely we have to remember the fallen. The presence of the politicians and other hierarchy is better than them not attending. They are not all to blame and the parades must continue.

Comments by tom, 9th November 2018  
we had four relatives in ww1 only one returned ,grandma told us they had to pay to carve inscription on their grave stones . its the way they were treated that sucks she could not afford to pay

Comments by DTease, 9th November 2018  
You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Chuck him out, the brute! "
But it's " Saviour of 'is country " when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An 'Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool - you bet that Tommy sees!

From "Tommy" by Rudyard Kipling.

Today's Politicians or yesterday's, they never seem to learn.
You bet that Tommy sees.

Comments by Veronica, 10th November 2018  
Very true - but no matter the injustice and financial hardship that many families ( my own included) suffered afterwards when in need and the need was not met. We will not and must not forget them who are part of us. Not many families escaped losing someone - even politicians and royalty, 'upper' classes and lower classes.

Comments by tom, 10th November 2018  
Veronica at the time the soldiers who came back did not forgive or forget what they had witnessed the powers what be did not want the peole to know the truth.

Comments by DTease, 10th November 2018  
I agree with what you say Veronica, itís just that I would rather see The Politicians and Royalty at the back of the parade rather than up front using the occasion for a photo opportunity. After all, most wars occur when Politicians and Royalty fail to do their job.
Not long ago our government sacked thousands of highly trained soldiers in order to save money, now they are talking about hiring mercenaries from abroad to fill the gaps in the ranks! How stupid is that.
You bet that Tommy sees and Tommy ainít joining! Tommy ainít no bloominí fool.

Comments by Margaret, 10th November 2018  
Get off your political soapbox Dtease.
Yes, there is a certain amount of hypocrisy in Ďpreening politiciansí parading for the cameras as you say, but that is at a national level.
This photo depicts a local ceremony, and it is highly likely everyone pictured played some part in one of the two world wars. Not sitting behind a desk, sending young men to die, but in Ďhands oní roles; be it in the services, or in mining or engineering, to aid the war effort.
They are there to remember old friends and comrades.
My mother never knew her father, because he was killed in WWI, when she was only months old, and her aunt (my great aunt) was widowed in the same conflict, and I know of the appalling hardship they suffered.
My father served in WWII, and afterwards spent a great deal of his time attending to the welfare of others who had served, through charity work.
Yes, terrible hardship is still being experienced today by ex servicemen, and radical action is needed to bring an end to it, but no need to try and pursue a political agenda through this photo.

Comments by Veronica, 10th November 2018  
I see what both of you are saying. 'Lions led by Donkeys 'and 'Goodbye to all that!' ' The Pity of War' and the complete waste of life. The poets and the soldiers themselves said it all. My father was served a summons because he couldn't afford the burial fees for his dad who had fought at Gallipoli and was wounded - now buried in a pauper's grave! He was assured he would be helped but it didn't come. So many grievances handed down and we have to remember them as well. If Royalty (the figureheads) and politicians weren't at the parade there would be outrage from many quarters. It's scandalous that mercenaries are being considered to fill up the ranks (cost more surely) the same applies with cutbacks in policing. But the ceremonies still have to be observed. Was there ever a time when there wasn't a war going on somewhere in the world? It never ends!

Comments by DTease, 10th November 2018  
Margaret, I havenít mentioned any Politcal Party in my comments nor do I belong to any political persuasion. I have only mentioned Politicians and as far as they are concerned I am totally impartial. I hate them all with equal passion.

Comments by rt, 15th November 2018  
and what would the alternative have been,the gov of the day could have kept quiet even when Poland and france was invaded even if they came across the channel we could have moved up to Scotland [if they would have us]and they could change the name England to gerland or live under a dictator with no mp,s or vote. Yes we could have done all that but when hitler had got rid of all the jews and all the gipsys who would be next for the ovens

Comments by Owd Orreller, 15th November 2018  
Jarvo, Sadly to say Ronnie Abrahams passed away about four or five years ago.

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