Wigan Album

Deadman's Penny.

By Tom Walsh .

As the anniversary of WW1 approached I began to think about Wigan's involvement in the war to end all wars(o that it were so), my mind wondered back to my school days at St Patricks School and being told about Thomas Woodcock V.C.a former pupil of the school,and how after a Civic Reception at Wigan Town Hall he was the guest of honour at our school,and that very night he left Wigan to return to the front ,never to return , he had cheated death once but wasn't to be so fortunate a second time. He was killed in action on the 27th March1918, only months before the armistice ,his bravery was further underlined by the fact that as a recipient of The Victoria Cross,he was excused front line action,but he insisted on rejoining his comrades. Considering his experience, his instance on returning to rejoin battle was surly as brave as his epic exploits on the battlefield, by this commitment surly another medal for bravery was deserved.
Citation (abridged)
On the 13th September 1917 north of Broenbeek, Belgium, when an advanced post had held out for 96 hours and was finally forced to retire. Private Woodcock covered the retreat. Private Woodcock heard cries for help behind him - he returned and waded into the stream amid a shower of bombs and rescued another member of the party the latter he then carried across open ground in daylight towards our front line, regardless of machine-gun fire.

In preparing this article I had the great pleasure of meeting Mrs. Veronica Ashton, Granddaughter of this outstanding warrior. She was able to give me an insight of the pride his family still have almost a century after his sacrifice, she allowed me to view her albums and a picture that has pride of place in her home. She recalls clearly his medals being displayed in a glass case in her grandmother's home in Cambridge Street. Mrs. Ashton , has visited her Grandfather's grave along with her children, she tells me of the overwhelming feeling of pride mixed with sorrow, tears are only just held back. Veronica is a kind person, of steely determination ,it is clear that Thomas Woodcock's traits have been passed down the generations. As she is proud of him, I'm sure
he in turn would be equally proud of her.



There are memorials to this brave soldier in both St Patricks Church and School. His Victoria Cross can be seen at The Guards Museum, Wellington Barracks ,Birdcage Walk , London.I haven't yet seen the medal but on my next visit to the capital I shall certainly pay a visit .I'm sure it will be a surreal experience knowing that I've shared a schoolyard with a man of such outstanding courage albeit 55years apart !

My only real memory regarding WW1 was of seeing large coin type ornament on the sideboard of a
neighbour, in McCormick Street, Mrs Kelly who had lost a son in The Great War, as she always described it, and asking her about it, she explained that it was given to families of servicemen who died in war and that it was called The Deadman's Penny.
I remember saying in a childlike way "a penny isn't much for a life" I can still remember her reply " e love it's not but it's all I've got of him, and it's worth it's weight in gold to me". At such a young age I couldn't fully comprehend what she meant or understand her great sorrow which never truly healed. Mrs Kelly died in The family home 34 McCormick Street in1951, still a broken woman. The suffering of WW1 wasn't only on the battlefields of Flanders and Passendale but in the hearths, hearts and homes of the Mothers and Fathers who would never see their sons again, not even left with a grave to tend. I think I half realised, even for one so young , that part of Mrs Kelly died on that fatal day in 1918.

As the centenary of the start of that war is
remembered my mind went back to Mrs Kelly and the so called Deadman's Penny and I resolved to find out more about her son .The following article is what I was able to ascertain with help of the records from Wigan's The History Shop, where the archive on the WW1 is truly amazing, thanks is due to all who worked on its compilation. Below the verbatim report.

WIGAN OBSERVER, 2nd November 1918.
NINETEEN AND FOUR YEARS SERVICE.

Mrs Kelly of. 34 McCormick Street Wigan has received news that her son Pte.John Kelly,Royal Irish Fusiliers Lewis Gun Corps, has been killed in action. Pte. Kelly who was nineteen years old and single enlisted in November 1914 and was last employed as a drawer at the Maypole Collieries . A comrade-in-arms , writing to the bereaved mother, tell her that her son was very well liked by all the boys in the platoon.

John Kelly was born on the 4th of June 1899 so he was only fifteen years six months when he
volunteered. (conscription was only introduced in 1916) Hence he must have exaggerated his age to enlist , I don't think many questions were asked if those days ! The tragedy is compounded by the nearness of the ceasefire, had that taken place a week or so earlier John Kelly would have returned to Wigan a war hero, and Mrs Kelly would have been spared thirty three years of heartache. If a week is along time in politics ,it must be an eternity in war !


I was only six years old when Mrs Kelly died ,and I have often wondered what happened to the memento,
I hope it didn't go in a house clearance and sold in a secondhand shop for a few coppers ,a mans life surely deserves better than that! Had I been older when Mrs Kelly died I would have suggested that it was placed in her coffin ,Mother and son together forever. What ever its fate I'm sure Mrs Kelly would be proud to see her son remembered in the pages of Wigan's own history magazine almost a hundred years after his death.



Deadman's Penny.

By Tom Walsh .

As the anniversary of WW1 approached I began to think about Wigan's involvement in the war to end all wars(o that it were so), my mind wondered back to my school days at St Patricks School and being told about Thomas Woodcock V.C.a former pupil of the school,and how after a Civic Reception at Wigan Town Hall he was the guest of honour at our school,and that very night he left Wigan to return to the front ,never to return , he had cheated death once but wasn't to be so fortunate a second time. He was killed in action on the 27th March1918, only months before the armistice ,his bravery was further underlined by the fact that as a recipient of The Victoria Cross,he was excused front line action,but he insisted on rejoining his comrades. Considering his experience, his instance on returning to rejoin battle was surly as brave as his epic exploits on the battlefield, by this commitment surly another medal for bravery was deserved.
Citation (abridged)
On the 13th September 1917 north of Broenbeek, Belgium, when an advanced post had held out for 96 hours and was finally forced to retire. Private Woodcock covered the retreat. Private Woodcock heard cries for help behind him - he returned and waded into the stream amid a shower of bombs and rescued another member of the party the latter he then carried across open ground in daylight towards our front line, regardless of machine-gun fire.

In preparing this article I had the great pleasure of meeting Mrs. Veronica Ashton, Granddaughter of this outstanding warrior. She was able to give me an insight of the pride his family still have almost a century after his sacrifice, she allowed me to view her albums and a picture that has pride of place in her home. She recalls clearly his medals being displayed in a glass case in her grandmother's home in Cambridge Street. Mrs. Ashton , has visited her Grandfather's grave along with her children, she tells me of the overwhelming feeling of pride mixed with sorrow, tears are only just held back. Veronica is a kind person, of steely determination ,it is clear that Thomas Woodcock's traits have been passed down the generations. As she is proud of him, I'm sure
he in turn would be equally proud of her.



There are memorials to this brave soldier in both St Patricks Church and School. His Victoria Cross can be seen at The Guards Museum, Wellington Barracks ,Birdcage Walk , London.I haven't yet seen the medal but on my next visit to the capital I shall certainly pay a visit .I'm sure it will be a surreal experience knowing that I've shared a schoolyard with a man of such outstanding courage albeit 55years apart !

My only real memory regarding WW1 was of seeing large coin type ornament on the sideboard of a
neighbour, in McCormick Street, Mrs Kelly who had lost a son in The Great War, as she always described it, and asking her about it, she explained that it was given to families of servicemen who died in war and that it was called The Deadman's Penny.
I remember saying in a childlike way "a penny isn't much for a life" I can still remember her reply " e love it's not but it's all I've got of him, and it's worth it's weight in gold to me". At such a young age I couldn't fully comprehend what she meant or understand her great sorrow which never truly healed. Mrs Kelly died in The family home 34 McCormick Street in1951, still a broken woman. The suffering of WW1 wasn't only on the battlefields of Flanders and Passendale but in the hearths, hearts and homes of the Mothers and Fathers who would never see their sons again, not even left with a grave to tend. I think I half realised, even for one so young , that part of Mrs Kelly died on that fatal day in 1918.

As the centenary of the start of that war is
remembered my mind went back to Mrs Kelly and the so called Deadman's Penny and I resolved to find out more about her son .The following article is what I was able to ascertain with help of the records from Wigan's The History Shop, where the archive on the WW1 is truly amazing, thanks is due to all who worked on its compilation. Below the verbatim report.

WIGAN OBSERVER, 2nd November 1918.
NINETEEN AND FOUR YEARS SERVICE.

Mrs Kelly of. 34 McCormick Street Wigan has received news that her son Pte.John Kelly,Royal Irish Fusiliers Lewis Gun Corps, has been killed in action. Pte. Kelly who was nineteen years old and single enlisted in November 1914 and was last employed as a drawer at the Maypole Collieries . A comrade-in-arms , writing to the bereaved mother, tell her that her son was very well liked by all the boys in the platoon.

John Kelly was born on the 4th of June 1899 so he was only fifteen years six months when he
volunteered. (conscription was only introduced in 1916) Hence he must have exaggerated his age to enlist , I don't think many questions were asked if those days ! The tragedy is compounded by the nearness of the ceasefire, had that taken place a week or so earlier John Kelly would have returned to Wigan a war hero, and Mrs Kelly would have been spared thirty three years of heartache. If a week is along time in politics ,it must be an eternity in war !


I was only six years old when Mrs Kelly died ,and I have often wondered what happened to the memento,
I hope it didn't go in a house clearance and sold in a secondhand shop for a few coppers ,a mans life surely deserves better than that! Had I been older when Mrs Kelly died I would have suggested that it was placed in her coffin ,Mother and son together forever. What ever its fate I'm sure Mrs Kelly would be proud to see her son remembered in the pages of Wigan's own history magazine almost a hundred years after his death.

Rev: David Long, Thank you for putting this story on WW Rev it ties nicely with the other story from WW1. Just think what the poor Mother & Father of James had to endure all three son's gone.When I was at school I was about to go on a trip to Belgium and my Grandfather gave me a note with a number on it and with a old mans choking voice said, this is my young brother James I named your Father after him, if you can find him say some prayers from me, sure enough I found his number on menin gate he was a Lewis gunner in a team of men in the battle of the Somme and he was shot by a German sniper, at that time the Germans were about to come over the top en mass so my great uncle had to left. The British artillery shelled the area to a pulp, when I returned home he asked me if I had found him I said yes I stood in the place he came through and said some prayers for him he smiled and moved in to the back kitchen, now just let any body say that had nothing to do with a Wigan lad.

Unbearable sadness -you just wonder how they found the strength to carry on. You did the right thing John telling your grandfather you had 'found' his younger brother. Was the 'Death Penny' given to the family of every soldier who died in the Great War?

Rev , Tom, the content, detail and historical value you write about and that which are held in the archives hold enormous significance for future generations, or should. This is my concern. It is also my concern to not cause offence. My ask is who will preserve these archives, our buildings , indeed such text history, in what you Rev suggested to Helen , 'a change of flux'. Churches , throughout the Uk are being turned into flats,
Wigan has two mosques , Bradford a hundred. What significance does the above text have to multi cultural Britain . Our history is being preserved by Anglo Sax brits. Look around you! We are living in a multi cultural society.
Are we going to create enclaves for historical content? My concern is , will the above text be just like a dust laden book, in an old forgotten book shop .What I find scary is on WW is you never hear the word Multi Culturism .
The above has huge value and significance to me, but will the following generations see it the same way. I doubt it!

Sorry, Julie, I've no idea what you're on about.

The story at the beginning of the thread was very interesting for me as I have a vague connection to the family. My great-grandfather's sister Alice Molyneux married John Longshaw's (the father's) brother Edward. John, in turn, seems to have married the above Alice Molyneux's cousin, who was also called Alice Molyneux. It was very complicated trying to keep the two families apart when I was researching them. I didn't know what happened after 1911 and was sad that a family should lose three sons. It was unfortunately not uncommon in that war.

LEP1950

Thanks Rev, How sad.

VB: Thank you for your kind comment about my grandfather, if the later part of your post was to ask me about the medal I have to say in all honesty I do not know. Rev David Long would be your best bet for that.

I think that I may possibly know what you're on about Julie. What you may be on about is the fact that this country barely resembles the country that these men fought and died for. Is that not what you're on about ? How many among the ' ethnic minorities ' that currently inhabit these offshore islands give a flying [zb] about how it came to be that we are able to voice an opinion on a public forum, without fear of incarceration , or worse ? How many of their forbears laid down their lives for that privilege. It's been displayed quite recently by certain football teams that obedience to protocol appears to exceed allegiance to debts outstanding. I suspect that this may be the thin end of the wedge.

I realise the families of the dead did receive the 'Dead Penny' medal reading from the extract John. I had never seen one myself -more than likely some where pawned. I have often wondered where my Grt Uncle's medals ended up after his parents died. I too visited the Battlefields and visited his grave. Even after a century the impact is still felt of what happened to that generation.

One of many of hundreds of thousands killed in wars, this one of our own local young men killed in their prime.That is why we should always remember them and wear a poppy on remembrance day nothing to do with politics just remembering our lost loved ones.

LEP1950 - thanks for that information, it explains an anomaly I'd found: the Wigan Cemetery records have the burials of Alice and John Longshaw of 2 Lime Street for 1878 and 1881 respectively. Their ages, 12 and 17 months, fitted the Baptisms of children of that name born to John and Alice Longshaw... but their son John lived to be killed in 1918. It looks as if the two families had children around the same time, and used the same family names. Unless you know better... Unfortunately I can't find the Baptisms of Edward and Alice on the Lancashire Online Parish Clerk site.

About 20 years ago you could pick the "Death Pennies" up at Car Boot sales for next to nothing, But these days they command a high price as people are buying them to research the person who is commemorates. I have my grandfathers along with his medals.

Thanks Ozy, exactly!

Rev Long,
The two children you mention - Alice and John - who died as infants at 2 Lime Street were definitely the children
of JOHN Longshaw and Alice nee Molyneux. The other Alice with Edward lived in Lower Morris Street, then Hardybutts (without Edward), then back in School Lane (near Edward). It was all very strange. This couple had about 10 children, but only one daughter survived. As far as I know, the sons they had were called Robert, James and Edward and they died as babies. They don't seem to have had a John. But they did have a daughter called Alice Jane who died around the same time as little Alice above.

In the 1911 census Edward was living with his nephews George and Edward, sons of his brother John. Edward died in 1915 from his wife Alice's house, although they seem to have been living apart for decades.
The John Longshaw in the 1891 census must have been a
second John. There was a John Langshaw born in 1881 with a mother whose maiden name was Molyneux and I presume that this must be him. I also can't find his baptism. It could have been an emergency one directly after birth. On the other hand I know from my Alice's family that part of the clan seemed to be attracted to religious movements
outside the Church of England as the burial records for a few years say "non-Conformist". Perhaps this is also a
possibility.

Will let you know if I find anything else. You seem to like to get to the bottom of things.
Linda

The baptisms and marriages of the two Alices below. The name of the father of one varies in the various documents between Edmund/Edward. It was probably difficult to decipher the handwriting:

Baptism: 25 Nov 1844 All Saints, Wigan, Lancs.
Alice Molyneux - Daur. of Jonathan Molyneux & Jane
Born: 15 Nov
Abode: School Lane
Occupation: Sawyer
Baptised by: John T. Pigot Curate
Register: Baptisms 1842 - 1845, Page 318, Entry 2544
Source: LDS Film 1885679


Baptism: 1 Jun 1845 All Saints, Wigan, Lancs.
Alice Molyneux - Daur. of Edmund Molyneux & Ellen
Born: 17 May
Abode: School Lane
Occupation: Sawyer
Baptised by: John Lomas Curate
Register: Baptisms 1842 - 1845, Page 396, Entry 3165
Source: LDS Film 1885679


Marriage: 24 Feb 1862 St George, Wigan, Lancashire, England
Edward Longshaw - (X), 22, Collier, Bachelor, School Lane
Alice Molyneux - (X), 19, Spinster, School Lane
Groom's Father: Edward Longshaw, Dyer
Bride's Father: Jonathan Molyneux, Sawyer
Witness: Charles Molyneux, (X); Bridget Molyneux, (X)
Married by Banns by: Alex Smith, Incumbent
Register: Marriages 1861 - 1867, Page 41, Entry 81
Source: LDS Film 1885726

Marriage: 1 Jan 1875 St George, Wigan, Lancashire, England
John Longshaw - (X), 28, Collier, Bachelor, Scholes
Alice Molyneux - (X), 28, Factory operative, Spinster, School St
Groom's Father: Edward Longshaw, Dyer
Bride's Father: Edward Molyneux, Sawyer
Witness: Peter Porter; Ellen Porter, (X)
Married by Banns by: Philip Hains
Register: Marriages 1873 - 1880, Page 50, Entry 100
Source: LDS Film 1885726

Linda

Hi Ozy, posted a reply which clearly went astray. Thankyou for having an open fertile mind. Don't wish add further to take away from Rev David kind posting. I,m clearly baking the wrong fruit cake in this discussion.

VB: I don't remember my grandfather showing me a death penny, but with the notification letter they did send back his wallet with the corner missing and a blood stained five frank note, very considerate in the M O D.

It must have been a nightmare for the family receiving a soldier's effects John. Worse still if his body had no known grave. I found out a lot from my Grt Uncle's service record- including the telegraph to the War Office informing of his death from his wounds ( fld.ambce France Reports SW thighs Leg L Proelicas)
Still happening to this day -some mother/wife having to go through all those terrible things.

Julie: Reading your comments and the fact you said you do not wish to cause offence! I think Ozy got on your wave length of thinking, and said quite rightly that most people who come to this country can not understand how we can have an open forum like this site. It's very important that you say what is important to you and contribute to WW, in a open and honest debate, I'am sure people on the site will state some times that they may not always agree with you but please say it anyway most will respect you for it.

Well stated Mr G.

John G. Thanks John. Only wish I could! There is so much fear now to speak openly. Our great Queen , but especially her family, will reign over millions of people whose only connection with our country is they live here,
English spoken rarely. Will they preserve the memory of the above? i read that even the Royal Family are concerned about remaining relevant . Ma'am, if many of your subjects refuse even to speak English , then what binds us? The land, our culture, our history? We have become a fragmented country ruled by fear. Just my opinion .

Julie,Ozy,agree with you both dread to think what my Granbchildren and there children will have to put up with in there own Country. All these here now only speak limited English / Council House/ Dole Money /. Wash your Car mister . Are they paying Income Tax no chance .Will the Tax Man chase them NO but he will chase us. If Corbyn gets his way and gets more in from the Middle East ( those who won't stand and fight for there own Country) God help us because thy won't fight for our Country.If all the Men& Women who gave there lives for Freedom & Free Speach in our Country could see what is happening now on our Streets they would turn in there Graves &it's going to get worse.Its time those in Power started to look after our People & Country first.I am not being racist I am being honest.

Oh, I wouldn't worry about the Queen - as Queen of the Commonwealth she's quite used to having the majority of those who accept her as their Queen being non-English speaking... and perhaps has an understanding of what it's like to be an incomer in this country from her being of immigrant stock herself.

My grandfather Evan Halsall fought in Gallipoli and died from wounds to his abdomen on 16th sept 1915 in a military hospital on the island of Lemnos he was a coal miner from Ince . I have visited his grave at Portianos Military Cemetery which was well kept by the commonwealth war graves commission and was the first of my family to have the opportunity to go there as times were different years ago .
My grandmother married again later so her surname changed ,and she had a large family and a long & happy life .
As I was the only remaining Halsall the war medals were passed on to me when she died but I never saw or heard of the dead mans penny .
I would dearly love to have this but obviously it's now a needle in a haystack .
What I would like to know is can I get a replica being a direct descendant of Evan as I have seen replicas of war medals worn on remembrance parades by relatives of dead soldiers .

You can get replicas here
http://replicamedals.co.uk
£40.00

Oh Dear Rev, the Commonwealth? Are you sure? It hangs by a thread. This is why Prince H and such are sent there. Do William and Harry go there only to preserve the elephant and Rhino, bless them for it, sorry no .
They go there in the hope to preserve once was.. We send millions to in aid to preserve this nonsense idea of Commonwealth. All these 1000 year cultures believe rightly in their culture, let us believe in the same way in ours!

My Grandad Stephen Dix died in Greece during WW1. I don't know what became of his medals!

I wouldn't say the Commonwealth was hanging by a thread Julie. We do owe a debt of gratitude to the Commonwealth countries during both wars which should never be forgotten. "it's crucial we honour the people from Africa to Australia -from India to West Indies who served and died alongside our forces-they defended the freedoms we enjoy today". The Queen is a symbolic head and does not involve herself in the governments of those countries nor does she wish to. Neither is it a hereditary role although her father before her was also a head of the Commonwealth. There is no wish for a British Empire and there would be no problems if those countries wanted to break away.