Wigan Album

Can you please explain why this is copied off eBay,
then a spoiler put on it for Wigan World

I put it on the site because I have the postcard here in front of me. Which I purchased from an Ebay dealer.

Thanks Ron, a great post card you in YOUR possession.
I am trying to orientate myself as to the direction of the photo as time plays tricks on personal recollections.
My best guess is from the bridge over the Douglas at the Sovereign Road end looking towards the town Centre. The Gas works would be behind the buildings on the left and Harrogate Street would be much further down on the right.

Good old Ron …what would we do without you. At least you don’t have a ‘brass neck’ like some who lift and copy. I thought that was what E-Bay was for to purchase stuff. Well done for your time and trouble. It does take time and effort to find these things. Instead of ‘mooching’ around stalls you can ‘mooch’ on line. Still have to pay though.

Fascinating photo Ron. However, I'm a bit lost with "Lower Darlington Street".....would that be what we now know as Darlington Street East, between Bulldog Tools and The Smoothing Iron Pub, or is it the next bit along, where Pepper Mill used to be, and Kaye's Surplus Stores, where the magistrates'court now stands?

I would say it’s before the crossings at the lights Irene. (I may be wrong). I don’t remember so many shops but some of the terraced housing were rebuilt at the fronts of the houses. If I am correct the housing on the left is definitely still there as are some on the right. In fact there’s a stonemasons on the right with the original shop front that still do memorial stones I think.

Well said Veronica.
Irene, I don't think there were that many shops on Darlington Street East and the road looks like it slightly curves off to the right into the distance towards the Derby Arms at the corner of Chapel Lane which would be on the left hand side.
Well before that would be Fairclough Steet on the left and just out of view on the right Harrogate Street.
The tram lines are still there and judging by the lady's attire and cars this looks to be in the 1920's.
Wish I could read the signs on that first building on the left, this would give some cluses!
As I say this my intuitive speculation.

May I echo Veronica and Irene's comments, I know from firsthand experience the hours and indeed the money Ron spends making Album the success that it is .
In years to come future generations will have you to thank for wonderful the resource they will be to use to see Wigan's History ! We probably don't say it enough- Thank you Ron , you really a remarkable man.

On the left hand side of the picture is where George Orwell stayed during is his brief time in Wigan probably where he decided on the title of his vile book ' The Road to Wigan Pier 'By using 'vile''Im sure it will upset Orwell's devotees , however that is how I see it . I of course don't deny he was a brilliant descriptive writer but I think in this work he took poetic license to umpteenth degree and then some more !

Oh Ron!!! it looks like you are a Hero with many fans and admirers. And I thought it was only me!

Tom, I have heard of many claims of places George Orwell supposedly stayed when writing his book, from Sovereign Road to Harrogate Street. Your thoughts are as good as anyone's.
Perhaps if Wigan was so bad, he didn't come to Wigan at all feared of what he might catch, just basing his book on 'Southern' rumours of our mud huts, pits, satanic mills and marauding clog shod masses?

Colin , Orwell did stay on the corner of Sovereign Road and Warrington Lane In perfect adequate and clean commendation found for him by Gerry Kennon a local union activist. He left after a few days and moved to rooms over a tripe shop in Darlington Street , probably the dirtiest he could find to re enforce his agenda . The shop was roughly opposite the Preston Arms which was situated on the corner of Harrogate Street and Darlington Street .

Tom, thanks for the research, all this sounds about right.
I remember the Preston Arms very well, it had wooden benches around the wall in the Vault that they brought out onto the pavement for the Whit Monday walks. The Tripe Shop might have been Varley's.
I wonder if George had a pint in there or tried Tripe?

Picture 4102 gives a glimpse of what some of these shops morphed into some 40 years later, when you read the comments made by ‘Alan’

There was a lot more shops further down Darlington Street after the crossings but from where I’m thinking of Graham it was mainly houses. That’s if it is
I’m where I’m thinking of.
(The shops were nearer to where the Courts are now i think and before the bridge) It’s so long ago though.

The photograph is taken by someone stood on, or very near, the River Douglas bridge. I remember in the 50's there was a confectioners shop on the left, near where the man is, where you could buy small 1d loaves

Ron. was the confectioner's McCandlish's ?

The house on the corner of Warrington Lane and Sovereign Road is where he stayed ..we used to live in Warrington Lane, and the Jones family lived there at the time..I would love to know who was living there when he stayed there.

Colin, Varley's was a fruit shop, beforehand the family kept The Cotton Tree public house on Hardybutts . The daughter May Varley had a beautiful voice, she was on a television talent show probably in the late fifties the shows ' Bid for Fame , I can even remember the song she chose, an Irish song ' Eileen sat Spinning ' , the whole of St Patrick's Parish watched the program those who didn't have a television would go to a neighbour house.

On The Preston Arms I only went in a couple of times , I remember it was only quite small ,it memory serves me right I think it was Burtonwood Brewery.

Good 1st December all.
I think we are all now in agreement that this picture was take from the Douglas Bridge looking towards King Street and the town centre.
I cannot remember all of the shops and Tom is correct in that Varley's was a fruit shop and I think they sold flowers, were they Scottish? I seem to recall a daughter in the 1950's with a Scottish accent.
I think I have tried to identify many shops in Darlington Street in it hay day on a previous posting but here we partially go again.
On the left hand side going down there was a butchers where each Saturday we had a regular order for a leg of lamb, then there was as John askes McCandlishes who sold cakes and confectionary, they also had a shop in the Market Place roughly were Starbucks is. The Baker was further down on the corner of Fairclough Street, you could see the ovens at the back with bread and baps baking, oooh the smell.
Before Kays started taking over the shops on the other side of Fairclough Street you would come to the Post Office, Whitworths Furniture Shop, Varley's, Taylors Picture Shop, Piano Shop, Mr Brown's Barbers Etc Etc. before you reached the Derby Arms
On the right hand side the first shop after the bridge was a butchers, I think it was Hurst and they had a son Lawrence. further along there was a shop, not sure if you would call it a toy shop but in the window they had a little steam engine with a crank shaft on the side and small boiler at the top, you added fuel which when burned gave steam power and cranked the shaft which turned a wheel, I was fascinated by this.
Then there was a Chemist that sold chemicals even the ingredients for gunpowder!
Further down still was a chippy were you could buy a aputh of scratchings and pea wet for a penny.
Then there was the pet shop, a shop or two before Harrogate Street, There was a house on the corner that must have had a cellar as there was a large slatted iron grid on the Harrogate Street side from which I retrieved a two shilling piece using a cane with chewing gum on the end, what a fortune that was. The Preston Arms was on the opposite corner of Harrogate Steet.
All the above based upon my recollections from the 1950's and 60's, so many names and shops are indeed overlooked but hope this in some way helps without boring you!.

That most certainly was NOT boring, Colin....it was fascinating. I love to read people's memories of all the old shops, particularly Tom Walsh's wonderful recollections of Scholes, (especially The May Queen one!), and Veronica's memories of the shops in Scholes, which always make me wish I had known Scholes better than I did, and I also love Maureen's memories of all the shops down Wallgate. I travelled a lot to Wigan on the bus as a child, in the late 1950s with my Mam, and then in the 1960s on my own, but I don't remember the shops in Darlington Street, except Kaye's. I would only have passed by them on the bus from Ince. Thankyou for sharing your vivid memories with us all.

Could you please inform me why me comment has not been posted, was I too near the truth?

RP, your comment WAS posted.....it was the first comment on this thread, unless you have posted another one since then. Sometimes. comments DO get missed out; that has happened to me on a number of occasions, as it has with other regular commenters. And what "Truth" are you "too near too"? Ron posted the photo as it belongs to him....he bought it off ebay as he explained, and, as the owner of it, he has every right to put it on here. It's a photo of old shops in Darlington Street in Wigan....it isn't The Mona Lisa

Hi Irene,
This postcard has been doctored, it should have numbers to the left, also the Darlington Street name is to large for the card, the reason I know is I bought this card off eBay a couple of months ago, also this is not the first time this has been done , I also feel that it is totally unfair to any buyer to copy cards that they have paid good money for, hope you understand

Sorry RP, I really do not understand what your problem is.
Ron, I would not dignify this with a response, leave this to those who appreciate your efforts and hard work.

Thankyou for your polite reply and I can now understand your feelings, but surely there is more than one copy of this photos in existence? I have known Ron for many years and I am sure he will have purchased this in good faith.

What a moaner, get off your high horse RP and get life!

Colin, I lived in Warrington Lane from 1970 , and taking my little son to school we had to go up Darlington St although not Darlington St East.. at that time the pet shop was owned by Mary and Danny Collins Danny was Irish.. they were a lovely couple.. each day after I’d picked my son up from school he would get a handful of dandelions from the grass verge at the side and push them through the letterbox for Mary, I bet she was fed up of sweeping soil up from the dandelions. .. I also used to call in McAndlishes , in fact I think I’ve called in them all..except the picture framing shop, he was very expensive..I have a lot of happy memories from living down there.
R.P. Ron lives close to me,and I can assure you that has never done anything underhanded.. if we didn’t have him to keep putting photos and info on WW you would have something to moan about… so please cheer up and possibly a thank you to Ron wouldn’t go amiss.

Thanks Maureen, I think Bob hit the nail on the head though.
I really cannot see what RP's gripe is, without copying post card, old pictures etc. we would only have more modern photographs to look at and discuss or comment about.
Although entitled to an opinion and some being more welcome than others, perhaps RP's just throwing the dummy out of the pram because Ron posted his first.

O.K. RP put your money where your mouth is...Here's my suggestion. Both RP and Ron make out cheques to the Salvation Army for £100 and left with a wiganworld member. If Ron proves he has the postcard he put on the site. Ron's cheque is returned to him. If he can't produce the post card, then RP's cheque is returned to him.

Hi Mediator,
A few people do not understand what I mean,
However you are at will to view the postcard and I can prove I purchased it of eBay, if you agree I will make arrangements for you to view, along with the other1500 plus Wigan Postcards, the copying of other peoples cards is not called for unless you acknowledge them

RP If you have so many postcards why not post some of them on here For other people to enjoy?Or are you one of those millionaires who buy paintings. Hide them away. Never to be seen again by the general public again???

You must be joking, they would then be copied and put on Wigan World to score Brownie Points also with a Wigan World spoiler on, however by arrangement you can come and view the postcards yourself
Regards RP

RP there’s another site you might feel obliged to go on. The photos on here are ‘grabbed’ for that site without a by your leave, credit, or even a thank you. The Wigan World ‘spoiler’ is to show that it has been researched and sourced by Ron. I for one don’t blame him one bit.
I realise that this will put you off putting your ‘products’ on here. But isn’t it nice to share things instead of keeping them for yourself to look at. At some time in the future you won’t be looking at them anymore., ..on here they will bring pleasure to other generations. Plus huge thanks from all on here who genuinely love seeing the photos of our past which belongs to us all..after all. Brownie points cost nothing I can’t see the point of them.

RP.. You say "they would then be copied and put on Wigan World" If you put them on here they are on wiganworld??? So what's your problem? Lets see some...

RP, I'm sure you and Ron BOTH bought your photos in good faith. As I said earlier, there must be more than one copy of this scene out there and if any have been "doctored" then the seller on ebay isn't going to advertise them as such and the buyer won't necessarily realise that fact....I certainly wouldn't. Just let it go.

Ps…. RP you would still have your ‘hard’ copy which is one of many to fondle fondly between your fingers! Clutching them to your beating breast and saying all the while “ Mine and mine alone to own”. Now don’t be mean….they will be forever in the archives of Wigan World when we have all kicked the proverbial bucket. I wouldn’t be surprised if they are not already there under various titles. You must have a look before you take the plunge.

Right Mr RP,Ron has just been to my house to show me the postcard that's been upsetting you so much,so I think you can give us all a break now and a thank you to Ron as I've said before wouldn't go amiss...goodbye.

RP you can provide proof of purchase all you want and keep harping on about it until you are blue in the face, surely there must have been thousands printed and now for sale on E-Bay or umpteen car boot sales etc. Anyone would think you had the original of the Mona Lisa with exclusive copyright.
I wouldn't put up 10p to mediate with that infuriating moaner, let him get back to obsessively pawing over his 1500 post cards like some modern day Scrooge.

Well said Veronica, I hope RP and his miserly ways are well and truly chastised and can vanish from the scene and RIP.

I suppose Rp is thinking of going on Antique’s Roadshow they do seem to be worth some money and can fetch a lot to interested buyers. (if they are original post cards) but the image on the cards on here won’t alter that Colin as I‘m sure you know that.

Reading again through all this I had totally forgotten what the original subject was which was Darlington Street. Talk about digressing!
RP, I lay claim to your post card and any others relating to it in perpetuity, as it would appear I am the sole survivor of that era as my memory will testify and others will verify.
No permission was ever requested or given for the original photograph to be taken or published. I thereby and herewith claim sole copyright of this image.
Action will be forthcoming in due course, in the meantime please refrain for further discourse on the aforementioned item in your possession.
Ron, you may keep yours. XXX

First off, thanks to everyone for your kind words. My last comment about this. This afternoon I had a quick look through my PC collection I came across 6 postcards that have the same image. Which were published by at least 2, and on one occasion 4 different Postcard publishers. inluding :- Lilywhite Ltd, Dennis & Sons, Masons, Will Smiths. Tom Miller, Valentines Heritage Postcards. Postcards of Wigan, and Wigan Archives Some with no publisher. Original cards, published at the time, and some later re issues. Same image different text on the front. I only looked through 4 of my albums so no doubt there will be more.. I did scan the cards fronts and backs and was going to upload them. But hey let's Move On. Only regret RP didn't take the MEDIATOR up on his Suggestion..
The Salvation Army will still get there Christmas cheque from me though..

Just past the tram electrification line column on the left and the building with a large gable at the front that looks to be a church or similar, I'm sure it was this building that also had a large gate to the side which vehicles could drive into a yard. Later, if it is the same building it was used as a police motor repair garage (Albert will remember this.)

The Wigan Co-operative also had a motor repair garage and fuel depot which was on Foy Street, two streets beyond the shops on the right, and when this along with all the houses were to be demolished to make way for the then new police station, around 1970, the Co-operative garage then moved into this ex police garage, but I'd left the Co-op then so if it stayed there or not I've no idea.

When my wife and I were courting I would walk home past these shops on the left, and I remember hot summer nights when the pavement and gratings were alive with cockroaches and were coming up from out of the cellars. I once worked alongside someone who'd worked at the gas works and he said the place was heaving with cockroaches, so they would more than likely have originated from there, and Orwell wrote in his book about the cellar of the tripe shop where he stayed - "I heard dreadful stories from the other lodgers about the place where the tripe was kept. Black beetles were said to swarm there."

Cyril, I see what you mean, I don't recall a Church down that side and I'm drawing a blank on what was there.
I remember the Co-op garage in Foy Street and the corrugated asbestos roof it had backing onto the communal yard of those houses at the top of Foy Street and a boy once falling through it!
Also on the corner of Foy Street and Harrogate Street a tiny shop straight out of Dickens with a bell on the door run by a frail elderly lady, Miss Lamb. when the bell rang she would come shuffling out of the back with her shawl on looking a bit like Old Mother Riley.
I don't remember a plague of Cockroaches but if you remember the Railway Bridge at the bottom of Millgate under the arch to the right hand side was Bolton Skin & Hide, the smell in Summer was horrendous and when the river Douglas was close to flooding hordes of rats would pour out like something out of Hamlin!!!