Wigan Album

I'm afraid I have been away from Wigan too long, was the Empire Picture House up the Wiend on the left? I remember being taken there once or twice as a child. Whenever I walk down there these days I think of Lord Derby and the building where he hid. I have stood in the place where Lord Derby was executed in Bolton. The picture itself is quite rare - I have only seen engravings of that time.

Veronica - the Empire was on Coopers Row, the next alley along from the Wiend, as you walk towards Standishgate.
It was demolished 1978/79.

Thanks Mick- I will have a wander up there next time I'm in Wigan and re- trace my steps!

My Grandma used to call the Empire th' alec.. it was something to do with Princess Alexandra..I think.

Maureen - I think at one stage in its history it was the Alexandra Music Hall.

I suppose it wasn't really on the radar as teenagers going to the pictures- if I do remember correctly it wasn't very smart - in the same way you wouldn't go to the smelly Pavillion. I don't know when the Empire stopped showing films.

Talking of the Empire, in the late fifties, I was on an attachment to C.I.D, the senior D.C. that I was with suggested we go and spend a half hour in the Empire. We were upstairs, next to the passageway. The usherette came along showing an exceedingly large gentleman to a seat opposite where we were seated. She was saying to him. “Is this alright for you sir?” He must have been badly troubled with flatulence, he moved his body, and there was suddenly this explosion of sound, from where he was sitting. The demeanour of the usherette immediately changed to. “ You dirty***####***bu—er”, and stormed off. We made a quick exit, for the open air.

Much of the following information is taken from The Music Hall and Theatre History. A site dedicated to Arthur Lloyd, 1839 - 1904 Arthur lloyd.co.uk and also my own recollections from the early 1950’s.

The old “Alex”, situated just off the Market Place was opened on the 6th April 1874. It was the opening of Wigan’s first custom–built music hall.

In 1892 the “old” Alexandra Music Hall, now The Empire Palace, was reopened, and “so great have been the alterations effected within the last few months, that visitors would scarcely recognise this now handsome and commodious hall. The very considerable structural alterations and decorations which have taken place are estimated to have cost £2600”. (about £325,000 in today’s money.)

The name “Empire” was retained when, in 1918, the building was converted for use exclusively as a cinema. It remained in this form until 1961 when it became the “Empire Social and Bingo Club" and as such continued to provide entertainment for the public of Wigan for the next 20 years, after which it remained dark and neglected and was demolished about ten years later.

However, from 1950 to 1956, I was living at the Crispin Arms, Birkett Street, Scholes and one of our customers was the genial and affable Dick Barnes, a large jovial character that everyone seemed to like. He was the then manager of The Empire Theatre, Wigan.

The Empire was known for sometimes showing avant-garde films ("mucky pictures") and a main part of Dick's job was to turn away "under age" youngsters who were so eager to come in. I suppose they wanted to be part of the audience who were appreciative of a media that was pushing the boundaries of what is accepted or acceptable taste, well that’s my kind interpretation.

Mr Barnes carried out his job with firmness and alacrity, usually in a broad Wigan accent - as far as I'm aware he met with little or no protests since his sizeable presence, and that included his voice, was a deterrent in itself. He was a well known and well loved local figure. I suspect that 1961 was the date when “Dick” Barnes’s Managerial post at the Empire may have finished when it became the “Empire Social and Bingo Club”. The place was demolished in 1990.

A comforting situation for the viewer, Albert, but most inconsistent manner from the usherette. I also like your use of the 'Bletchley Park stuff', in fact, I've already cracked its hashtags.

Thank you for s very interesting post, Keith.
A minor correction - the Empire was actually demolished in the late 1970s.
At that time I was working as a police officer in Wigan town centre , prior to getting a transfer closer to home, and I remember the demolition, and the problems experienced with scrap metal thieves etc, every time the demolition crew turned their backs.
The Empire came down only a matter of months after the shops on Millgate backing onto it (Ashcrofts fishing tackle, Jolleys electrical, 'Slow Joe's' cafe etc) were demolished.

Thank you for the correction Mick LD. The Empire was actually demolished in the late 1970's as you say, I should check my facts that I obtained from the Arthur Lloyd site before posting. Good to know you can't get away with incorrect facts on wigan world.

Very Interesting comments educational and a funny one - the poor usherette I bet they had something to put up with in those times!

By the way. I must add, that the film showing wasn’t ‘Gone with the Wind’. It was just the two of us that took that route, because of it.

Watched blackboard jungle at the empire also the old horror movies dick Barnes used to go in st Catherine's youth club on the rec,he was a good billiards player

Tom, I remember being shown how to achieve a fancy In-off billiard shot once, by a chap named Reg (I never knew his surname.), in the Sixties. He'd been an amateur billiard player, and on one occasion had received a Joe Davis cue from the great man himself after playing him at an exhibition match - Pemberton springs to mind. The In-off shot was executed by first placing the red ball on the cushion in-between the middle and corner pockets and to then - with a bit of side and stun -, almost 'blast' the red ball out of the way, allowing the cue ball to bite into the cushion and then on into the corner pocket. Bingo!

In the previous posting of this image, it identified the building to the right to be that of the clockmaker James Bradshaw. Is this correct? He was located at 23 Market Place, if anyone could point me to any other pictures or drawings that identify the building.

Fascinating picture and story however in my minds eye I am having trouble with the precise location of these buildings.
I have consulted my map of 1827 I cannot picture them near the Weind or Coopers Row. Nor on the opposite side of Market Place as the New Town Hall would still be there, nor the corner of Wallgate as the Old Town Hall would still be in that location with the Parish Church prominent at the back.
On my map of 1889-92 both Town Halls had been demolished but these building are clearly much earlier.
What I am intrigued with is the second paragraph mention of the double fronted shop of Holt & Howard, showing the double fronted bow windows of the eighteenth century: Rebuilt in 1865 as four shops.
Bakers Jewel Casket dates from 1843 as the photograph of the original date plaque will testify, recast and currently on the exterior wall of Goldsmiths.
Further I have been trying to track down at least one of these bow windows and sure that they were on the front of Bakers Jewel Casket and removed at one time due to modernisation and which I know for certain was in the possession of Wigan Council and on display in the The Central Library in the 1980's and now either in storage or lost.
What a mystery this is! Any help would be appreciated.
PS Levi, I hope the information and contact I sent to you was all helpful in your research?

It would be good to see the original picture from which the newspaper article was written, I am sure it would be much clearer in identifying the precise location.
I think this has great historical importance, I just hope someone can locate it and upload it.