Wigan Album

75% of men these days dont know what a days work is or means, most of them have 'a hard day at the office', i dont blame the men of today for what job they do, i blame Mrs Thatcher for shutting down most of our industry, she preferred 'white collar workers to blue' the chance of an apprenticeship went through the window, now the Tories are bragging about offering apprenticeships, when it was their party that got rid of them. I started work in the 50s, served my time and did 7 days a week, most weeks, did daft shifts etc, my last 20 years were spent on regular nights, heavy work at times in hot conditions. My father in law used to tell me he shifted 10 tons of coal day by hand, plus other duties, he died 30 years ago not knowing what a laptop was. These two lads on this photo did a hard days work, probably without a moan and got very poor pay for the privilege.

Mrs Thatcher was the best prime minister we have had, since Churchill.

Garry, that's not saying much. Churchill was a alcoholic who could not function unless he was three parts drunk.

My car won't function unless it's got petrol.
Thatcher...who HAS been better since her time? NO-ONE.

What was so great about Thatcher?

Methinks. You tell me "who" is a better PM after her.

Alan, you make the point for us. The fact that this country can find no better Politician than mad Maggie only serves to point out the desperately poor quality of British Politicians over recent years.

With apologies to Helen and her brilliant photograph.
But with NO apologies to Garry and Alan.
There was no democracy during the black years of Thatcher. Yes, the unions DID need taming but certainly not crushing. For example, the miners strike. Her spin machine tried to make Scargill seem the idiot that he certainly wasn't, he said from the start that Thatcher was going to close the pits, but nobody listened. The strike was about keeping miners jobs, not money, it was the only way to try to get the message across. So, if Scargill was so wrong, where are all the pits now ? We are importing millions of tons from as far away as Australia when there are decades of the stuff still beneath our feet. The woman had a personal vendetta against unions and workers rights and she did not give a hoot who she hurt in the process of pulling everyone into HER line. During her spell of destruction we saw most major industries eg, coal, shipyards, textiles etc, ruined. She scrapped all the traditional apprenticeships so much so that school leavers had few prospects of training or job hopes. Our once GREAT country is now reduced to being a service industry, which, is what she wanted, and, as usual got her own way. It WILL be great again now that we are out of the EU, but, not in my time i'm afraid.
Dont talk to me about Churchill, just speak to relatives of the many people who he sent to their deaths in the first world war, the Dardanelles and Gallipoli for example, over which he was forced to resign his post in disgrace. By the end of the war he had managed to scramble his way back into office, but Gallipoli was a big stain on his reputation. That's enough about about a man who didn't seem to be able to function without a drink inside him, a man who once said. ''When i was younger i made it a rule never to take a strong drink before lunch. It is now my rule, never to do so before breakfast'' I think that says it all !!!

Well said Roy and you are right. Perhaps things will now improve with .kk Theresa May at the helm hopefully. I'm afraid I grew up with the idea that Churchill was a warmonger for the role he played in the Galipolli campaign and I never forgot that as my grandfather was actually there! He had to be restrained from having the troops brought out when the miners went on strike -after what those men had gone through in the war. But I must admit his literary talents were second to none and he was the right man for the job during the second conflict. Apologies if going off the thread.

You Voted her in.

Roy even if the miners won the battle with thatcher, there's no demand for coal these days well since the 1980s, no steam engines, no factories, no coal power stations, no coal fired houses...do I need to go on!!!! Thatcher looked into the future...and she was right.

Pity John Smith passed away prematurely, before he could show his mettle He seemed to have much common sense. Common sense is an essential ingredient, to run side by side, that of having an intellectual brain.

Alan, why are we importing coal from Australia if nobody wants it?

Churchill once said, "Give us the tools and we'll do the job" how right he was. A real bulldog. Mrs Thatcher, the iron lady.

Alex, Churchill never did an honest days toil in his life, with or without tools. Mrs Thatcher was just never honest.

I DID NOT VOTE HER IN. There was and still is a demand for coal, as two of us on here say, millions of tons are being imported, you are right that there are no factories, no coal fired power stations, she closed them down that's why.

Generations of families in the mining ,textile, shipyard etc industries were brought on the notion that it was a 'job for life'. I heard a young steel worker recently saying these very words on the television. I thought what planet are these people on. We have to compete with countries as massive as China. What do we do save these industries for the sake of saving jobs, no matter what the cost? Look at the textiles countries like India can produce, China is flooding the market with steel, but Teresa May is not going to upset the chinese. We have to compete on a world market selling goods and services that are not only better but cheaper than the rest. When you do your weekly shop do buy a British made lettuce costing £1 in preference of a French one costing 25p? Perhaps we should but I don't believe this happens in reality. Thatcher's mistake was not having an investment plan for industries like the mines when she closed them. If these miners had a job in a new technology industry or some other progressive industry,then maybe what happened could have been averted. Sadly, this once a miner forever a miner and consider nothing else will never survive in this modern world. The idea of a job for life I don't understand. Young people should be taught have to not just one skill, one language but as many as possible.
If there is no job in their town go to one where there is job. I know NT.
Of course we should create thousands of apprenticeships but in what industries? If there is still coal to be mined I wonder would young people these days want a career in the mines? I thought the idea of my grandfather was a steel worker, my father was as well , so that's what I should do was gone. There is a big big world out there full of opportunities for young people to choose from. I went straight from school and through the factory gates, why? Because that's what I was programmed to do, utter madness!! Thanks Keith and Helen

Thatcher not only destroyed the coal industry,she also decimated many mining communities which have never recovered.

Thatcher got in because the hair brained women of the country thought it would be great to have a woman at the top, women who had ever bothered voting before even voted for her just because she was female. Then it dawned on them what they had done when their husbands lost their jobs and their homes, towns and villages lost their communities, men took their own lives because they had lost all, even their dignity as working men. I never saw her as woman but as a 'Tory' who wanted to grind the working class into the ground and back to Victorian times. That didn't quite work out for her so she privatised industry and services to squeeze them further. We now have food banks for the poor and those on low wages who work full time, we may end up tugging the forelock to them yet.

You've hit it on the head Kas. Only thinking outside the box will[and it WILL] make Britain GREAT again.

And a GREAT photo Helen.

This photo is a great historical piece of information, graphic evidence of how people lived and worked - BUT the point is it's historical - nothing stays the same - in our industrial world we have to change, move on, learn new skills in order to be competitive. This involves change in all manner of ways and sadly it does affect peoples lives but moving on is essential, if the change can be be done with minimal disruption then that's obviously how it should be done but realistically we have to be flexible, willing to learn new methods and re-train- it's the way the world is and how it has changed from the days when this wonderful photo was taken.

Hello Alan, in your opinion and Gary's opinion that Thatcher was best the prime minister since Churchill etc, doesn't mean she was a good prime minister. She put all GB's future into the Banking sector, and look how well the WHOLE population has fared.

Roy, the was no real demand for coal, the NCB was declining in the late 60s and 70s. Thatcher could see that. Homes were converted to central heating. There's one issue not been mentioned and that's climate change/emissions, coal power would be a no no today. I also think some of you are anti Thatcher because your ex pit men!......and who wants to work in a dirty filthy environment anyway, Health and Safety wouldn't allow it today.

But it's ok for others to work underground in the other countries! What about Health and Safety for them!

bert, central heating runs on gas from the north sea, as this gas is now running out we are becoming more and more dependant on gas from Russia. What will we do if Russia decides to bump up the price or cut us off?
If there is no demand for coal why are we importing thousands of tonnes a year from Poland and as far away as Australia?
This government seems very keen to get going with Fracking which will also produce a Fossil Fuel. They don't seem to be very worried about the emmissions in that case do they?

I shall repeat myself one last time, why are many other countries STLL producing coal and why are WE still importing millions of tons if there is NO demand for it? I am not ex NCB and, i do not do 'climate change' in respect of emissions etc. Climate change is a natural occurrence which has been happening for millions of years. The UK has been covered in ice, water, palm trees, etc and will be again someday. Smoking chimneys, car exhaust fumes etc weren't causing it then and don't now, they may accelerate it a little. We have only become alarmed recently because of television pictures which weren't availabe 70 years ago, for example, of lumps falling from glaciers, 'climate change' is natural progression and there is no stopping it, unfortunately.

Vb,let's not get involved with other Country's Health&Safety problems let's start looking after ourselfs for a change.Just look around see what's going on in our Country by sticking our noses in other Country's problem's.

I am merely stating Jinksie that other countries are now doing the work that was once done here. Great Britain led the way in Industrialisation - and we now have nothing left to show for it! Health and Safety and Climate change was used as another reason 'to get 'bout it! (our industry) If other countries can get around Health and Safety and other excuses why can't this ?

Well said Jinksi. Some folk on here think their always right.

No Garry -we live in a democracy -we are all entitled to our opinion.

Yes Garry, one person in particular, YOU.

See what you've caused Jonno. he he he.

Flippin' 'eck ! What a palaver !.......Global warming,...acid rain,...carbon emissions,....melting ice caps,.....nuclear fallout,.....tsunami,... pyroclastic flow,.....ozone depletion,.....Blinking Blimey!.......what's it all coming to ? That's the question on my lips......Speaking for myself though, I don't actually have a carbon footprint, as I tend to drive everywhere.

Regards. Oz.

A good discussion Garry, that's what it's all about.

and what do the two lads in the photo think about all this

Oz, what the eck is Pyroclastic Flow? And don't you realise that you are destroying the world by driving everywhere? Get on your feet immediately young man or I will report you to the Global Warming Police.

I would imagine these two boys would have known quite a bit about pyroclastic flow......"a dense, destructive mass of very hot ash..."

Blimey Josh! I was thinking it was akin to something I once suffered after indulging in a desperately cruel Curry on top of eight pints of Tetley's best Bitter. Thank goodness it turns out to be something nowhere near as serious as that was.

Well Roy, if I could just be serious here for a moment,.....I believe,....Oh Lordy Oz, why not give it a rest ?.... Ahem....O.K. then..... I feel obliged to state at this juncture Roy, that I agree pretty much with every word that you say in both of your posts. The unions, Margaret Thatcher, Arthur Scargill, coal imports, Winston Churchill and now global warming. As you correctly, ( in my humble opinion at any rate ), state, we are looking at a naturally occurring phenomenon here. It's been happening on and off for aeons, and will continue so to do despite the feeble attempts of the human race to alter things. The coal measures in this country were formed in tropical swamps evidently, then compressed by millions of tons of ice contained in glaciers during successive ice ages. All this took place long before I started polluting the atmosphere with the exhaust fumes from my Reliant Robin, so they can't hold me responsible for any damage. In my view, Homo sapiens, as a species has become ' peas above sticks '. We have a tendency to believe that we are masters of our own destiny, wheras in reality, all we are is dust in the wind. Glaciers and tropical forests will continue to cover this land of ours, long after all us lot are underneath it, with or without our consent or assistance.

Regards. Ozy.

If this coming winter, we have climatic weather syndromes, resulting in storms, and floods, it may be a good idea for all who reside near a river, or on a flood plain, to invest in a boat. I believe most people acknowledge that weather patterns are having a dramatic change. Each person has their own theory on the causes.

Very well put Ozy, but should we consider both sides as theories? The art of science, as Carl Sagan tells us, should followed along the lines of Johannes Kepler, who rejected his most passionate beliefs in order to find
the scientific truth. I believe , like you Ozy, that this is a perfectly natural process , just like earthquakes . The fact it might destroy the human species is neither here nor there in the scheme of things. Until we learn that Nature is boss not us, then we are just making our short lives harder. One word of comfort to leave you with, scientists tell us that billions of years from now the Andromeda galaxy will directly hit our galaxy AND, they say, that this will not be a monumentally explosive event but more like a ballet, two bodies folding into one... Sorry Helen & Keith, one comment lead to another.

Could not agree with you more Ozy, well put

The 1960's were the defining decade for the accelerated run down of the deep mined coal industry. The 1967 Government Fuel Policy directed the fuel consumption mix towards nuclear, on fiddled figures, oil and gas.
A first hand account of the profound changes initiated during this decade can be found in the book 'Ten Year Stint' by the then NCB chairman Alf Rowens. It is well worth a read.
If anybody wants to order a copy from the local library the ISBN number is 0 304 93874 2.

Pack it in now Deeteez, I'm rolling around on the floor here. You have to consider the fact that I'm getting on a bit now and can only cope with a certain amount of hilarity at any one time.... I'm on tablets you know.... Too much laughing could prove fatal to a person in my condition. As for the Andromeda galaxy colliding with ours Kas, if, as you say, it would involve two bodies folding into one, then my response to that statement, if I'm understanding you correctly,...and it's perfectly feasible that I'm not,....would be,...Bring it on. Oh! and by the way Albert, I don't know where you live, but if it's anywhere less than 200 feet above the flood plain of the river Douglas, it may be of interest to you to learn that I have a rowing boat hanging from the back wall of my garage that I'm prepared to hire out at a very reasonably rate to Wigan World regulars. I charge extra for the oars of course, as one would expect.
Feel free to email me if the weather turns nasty.

Regards. Ozy.

Hello Ozy. Not near a river, nor a flood plain, just half a mile from the Irish Sea.

We know now why Polotics and Peligion are TABOO subjects in social discussions and have no place in W W comments

THOSE two subjects are definately taboo AB. I presume you mean, Politics and Religion and not Polotics and Peligion.

Ozy, it can't be very comfortable trying to row whilst hanging from a nail at the back of your garage, Have you considered putting your boat in some water?

Hahahahahateehee ....and lol....Definitely Blob!

Taking into account yesterday's N.W. weather Ozy. Did anyone borrow your boat?.

the word Democracy has been used many times in the various comments made.....do you mean the sort of "Nodding Dog"democracy we experience in the own Hall herein Wigan ? Stroll on people, wake up, Democracy means debate, options, opinions being listed too and evaluated,not the sort of North Korean regime we have here.