Wigan Album

Looking at some of these photos and comments, the school lacked one subject and that's English.
Some of the Grammar is poor, simple words without CAPITAL letters etc.
Good photos though.

Hi Sue I agree about about the grammar.but it would take me all day to return comments on here .Mr Rawles once told me the year this photo was taken he had never seen a boy grow so quick in my last year as it was then in all his time as a teacher.good teacher.

With respect Sue, it's all about priorities isn't it ?, and I would imagine that the priorities of schools such as this one would have been to prepare the pupils, the male ones at any rate, for a lifetime of work in the industries that existed back then, or preparation for apprenticeships in the various trades, where one's ability to execute the task to a high standard was more of a priority than one's ability to punctuate correctly. The grammar schools on the other hand, prioritised in providing tuition in subjects of a more academic nature. I realise the selection process may have left a lot to be desired however, and no doubt many people were assigned to schools that weren't best suited to their needs, but the system, on the whole, worked, after a fashion. In fact, I suspect it worked far better than the current comprehensive system which appears to render everyone down to the lowest common denominator. Allow me, if you will, to ask a question Sue. If your boiler broke down in the middle of a cold spell, would you consider it a priority to enquire as to whether or not the plumber who came round to repair it had an ' A ' level GCE certificate in English language ? I suspect not. Like I said, it's all about priorities.

Ozy, if they couldn't teach the boiler man English they certainly taught him how to make a bloody invoice up!

You're not wrong there DTease, I personally know one or two millionaires who can barely write their own name, let alone punctuate a sentence correctly. So maths obviously took priority over English in their book did it not ? All the best for 2017 mate.

Regards. Ozy.

Thank you Ozy x

Ozy, you make some valid points. Today's Comprehensives (not all but perhaps the majority) run the risk of falling between two stools - not getting enough of its pupils up to a required standard in basic subjects and on the other not really preparing most for the real world of work and endowing them with the required skills they will need out there. Perhaps there's a lot to be said for the two tier system you and I grew up with - just my point of view.

In all the pictures from Ashton-in-Makerfield Secondary School, they all seem to suggest that the teacher didn't know that the camera was on them, were they taken by stealth?

No Roger, I think they were actually taken by Mr. Grundy himself......Only joking mate....... No I agree, I think they are what could safely be termed 'candid' shots. Mr. Grundy as a lad was somewhat ahead of his time, first of all inasmuch as he actually owned a camera in 1963 and secondly, also because he took shots of pretty much anything and everything, providing us all, more than half a century down the road with a few unimportant yet unique fragments of history, from a world that existed before the lunatics took charge of the asylum.

Ozy, said it once before , but as someone with not your skill , I do envy how you put sentences together . I have always found grammar and punctuation difficult , so to see how, when used correctly, it can make the word flow , always gives me a buzz. Some people are able to describe in one sentence that which would take me a whole paragraph. Whoever your English teacher was at school Ozy he certainly got his message over to you in my eyes. Would love to be able to write without second nature.

The word is photohraphs....

Geewhizz?

Photohraphs isn't a word that I'm familiar with if I'm being honest me... sorry, I don't mean me, me, I mean you, me......quite frankly you've lost me with that one me..... Oh ! bugger it.... Kas, there are many people who post comments on this site, who's command of the English language is at the very least equal to, if not far better than mine. I will refrain from naming them, but they know who they are, so why you've chosen to single me out remains a mystery. Unless it's down to the fact that I tend to ramble on incessantly. I'll take your comment as a compliment nonetheless, even though I feel it may be somewhat unwarrented. After all, when all's said and done,I'm just a wagon driver, I've never actually claimed to be anything else.

Regards. Ozy.

Me , And ....within them..

Ozzy I can't believe it.........unwarranted.......write it out three times!!!

Is it all me me me with you me? Or is it just me?

Sorry Veebs, how the mighty do fall.

We're only human Ozy not programmed robots..... Agree with the comments in Education. I also think for what it's worth everybody has a talent for something or other!

Ironically, Percy Rawles was one of the few teachers at that school who could spell and punctuate correctly.

As President elect of USA is noted for his lack of ability in respect of correct English Language usage, perhaps incorrect spelling and punctuation will now become popular!

Ozymandias poem by Percy Bysshe Shelley is a secondary school revision resource for GCSE English literature.

Not restricted to spelling and punctuation AP, I notice even broadcasters saying "ofofa" or "gotten" plus a few more I can't recall at the moment. Only schools can stop the rot but will they.

And how about the infuriating trend these days of replacing the letter 'w' with the letter 'r' to give us nonsensical words such as 'droring' for drawing, or 'soring' for sawing ? Who on earth came up with that one ? These are educated people for heaven's sake, supposedly. Still, these stupid trendy words are heard all over the place, especially on t.v. But I suppose it's like David Long said recently about everything being in a constant state of flux. This has been the case with language for centuries. Take the language that Chaucer or Shakespeare used for example, there's no doubting that it's English, but it may as well be Swahili for all the sense it makes to most people living in the 21st century. Consider also some of the phrases borrowed from our colonial cousins that many of us, including myself, use on a daily basis. Phrases such as 'no way', 'rip off', 'no worries', and a host of others, which typically, I can't bring to mind at this moment. They would have been totally alien to our British ears a quarter of a century ago, yet they have gradually and imperceptibly become integrated into the English language, or the common man's language at any rate. Incidentally, if there is anyone reading this that has the slightest interest in the way that the English language has evolved over the centuries, I have no hesitation in recommending an excellent book entitled ' Made in America ' by the travel writer, Bill Bryson. You can borrow it from the library, but normally it's quite often available at most car boot sales for about 50p, or failing that, you can have a read of my copy for a small fee.

Regards. Ozy.

A wer o gradley un ut English when a wer ut Skoo Ozy but mi pronunciation let mi dean o bit.

All the best for 2017 Ozy.

Thas not bin elpin Garry aht wi yon bottle er crismus sherry be ony chance astu DTease ?

Ozy, the last time I drunk sherry was when me and the future Mrs DTease went round to see the Vicar about our wedding. I've never fancied it since....the sherry that is, not the missus.

Ozy, Prince Charles has written many articles about the importance of learning to read, write and use grammar and punctuation correctly. When you read his writing it has all the ingredients he goes on about but has as much creative energy as a pair of old socks . The English language is the structure , grammar and punctuation give it form . It is the writer and how he or she adds creativity, the third ingredient, that brings it to life for the reader. If you still find this a mystery Ozy then I would check your wagon , as maybe exhaust fumes might be entering the cab. Or , ask yourself, why the teachers in your school , did not inspire you to pursue the talent which you clearly have, but let you join the rat race and become a wagon driver.
Why did I single you out? Hate to see wasted talent .

Careful Kas, where would the world be without wagon drivers?

I will try to tread carefully Josh. Cheers

Hiya Kas, I suspect that my previous comment may possibly have been perceived as being somewhat cold and brusque and may consequently have caused a little offence. If that is the case, then I extend my sincere apologies, as causing offence was never my intention. I'll try to keep this as brief as possible. When I stated that I took your comment as a compliment, I actually meant it, but you must realise that receiving plaudits on a public forum can be a little embarrassing. To cut to the chase however, you're quite right, my talent in English was probably wasted, but I have other talents fortunately......We're back to priorities again here....You mentioned the ' rat race ', well, I've spent the thick end of half a century as a wagon driver, at the sharp end, delivering material of all description across the UK, Europe and beyond, ( it was a conscious decision, about which I have few regrets ) and I firmly believe that the talents I possess that enabled me to achieve what I achieved, far outweigh any benefit that could possibly have been derived from pursuing a career that relied solely on my ability to spell and punctuate with a degree of accuracy. For sure, my education was wasted, but please don't pity me, as my life hasn't been wasted, and that's what it's all about as far as I'm concerned. I've always done my own thing, I've seen places and done things that I never would have seen or done had I followed the line of least resistance and gone with the advice of my careers advisor. And anyway Kas, what's wrong with a wagon driver who can spell and punctuate ?.... Oh!, and by the way, don't sell yourself short Kas, as, for what it's worth, I can't see much to complain about with your grammar either....Have a good life my friend.

Regards. Ozy.

Ozy, I did , to be honest. Took it simply that some people find compliments difficult to handle, especially if genuine. It's like they have suddenly been thrown a hot coal.
Nothing wrong with wagon driver or any trade , which was never my point. I would never demean anyone's efforts to put bread on the table.
You really should think more about your writing , most have two Ingredients, you have all three. Writing is a lot harder than people think. Many students don't just study writing, they study creative writing, there is a huge Grand Canyon of difference. It seems to come natural to you Ozy, so sad you can't see it. I can see a good writer, I mean one that stand out from the crowd , a mile off, as if they are ringing a bell. Never be afraid of compliments Ozy, it's only when they start throwing things do you need worry. A literary agent once told me she was shocked by the huge number of works she receives , from people , who wholeheartedly believed they could write, when in fact they hadn't a clue. Her difficulty was trying to explain this to them. Use , don't waste , what comes so natural to you that people like me so envy. I hold only one ingredient which is not enough to make the word flow off the page to the reader.

Ozy - See the favourable effects your posts have on your readers! Your posts also serve as a whetstone for other people to sharpen their imaginations on - mine as well. Although no scribe, I regard my concentration, punctuation and grammar to have improved over the years by learning from various sources (modern thought informs me I can expect five extra years) - your posts included. One source in particular has been R.P. Hewett's 'Reading and Response' which I found a few years ago in a cardboard box at The Thomas Linacre Centre, while waiting for an appointment. The author gives comment and explanations in easy-going style on various topics ie Edward Thomas's 'Adlestrop', and, in better words than mine, how a reader's palate can become dulled by a repeated diet of ... . The book, although pocket-size, can hardly be described as backyard reading, but I have made further readings of certain passages while sat at my patio table during subsequent Summers, and alongside the seat that my brother sometimes uses (his seat could double as a hospitality area for Edward Thomas - he also allowed to arrive at a time of his own choosing). Continue with your variegated posts - whetstone and 3-in-One are at the ready.

Philip/Ozy "War and Peace" is a great book for slumbering purposes ... If only for the book to fall on the head and face whilst reading it in bed! No need for sleeping pills or 'Night Nurse' either. It's only 1,443 pages long I have been given 6 months to read it and am half way there! It is definitely a sure cert. for getting to sleep! Of course that's if you haven't already read it! Both of you seem to be quite well read!

I think Sue's spot on.
At my school you'd all be called a dunce.

To many people like to write compositions on here.

Is that because it is full of refugees from the 'Discussion' boards, who whilst keen to communicate, do not wish to participate in 'fight club'?

Grammer, what is the plural of 'Dunce'?

Whilst your asking DTease Grammar's the name and spelling's the game.... :-))

The collective noun for ' dunces ' it would appear is ' a confederacy ', I've just looked it up. Had I been invited to submit a suggestion however, it may have been ' a thickness of dunces ', or quite possibly even, ' a council chamber of dunces '.

Well spotted Vb.

Ozy, I like your description of 'a Council of dunces'. I was thinking maybe 'a dimness of dunces' but I reckon the Council would win if it was a competition.

Or a 'dense thicket ' of dunces!

Excellent Veebs, I'll go with that one. Much better than ' confederacy ' anyway. Who on earth came up with that one ? Some government QUANGO more than like.

The photograph of Mr. Rawles seems to have been taken outside one of the prefabricated classrooms that were erected in front of the then school gardens